Walter Frederick ENGLAND

[Janette]

Birth
1912/20522   England    Lucy to   Lucy Alice   and Walter Frederick
narrowed down date 2/2/1912

Cheers Janette

[minniehaha]

Five telephone numbers sent by PM. Addresses will be supplied if requested.


Minniehaha. 

[Girl Guide]

Thank you Janette for that and Minnie have read your pm.

Now can either of you help with something that puzzles me on the list of descendants that I have?

Two girls said to be the children of Walter Frederick and Lucy Alice, they are:-

Lucy Olive England born 1912 in Auckland

Winifred Alice England born 31 August 1912 in Rotorua, died 1979

I can't get my head around the idea that Lucy Alice gave birth to two children in the same year in two different places!  I did find a birth record for Lucy but couldn't find anything for Winifred.  I don't know where to find records of Rotorua births.

I would need to obtain printouts for the births of these two girls to clarify exactly who the parents are.  Can you help?

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hello...

PM sent.

Just guesswork.

No proof of anything :-)

---

Would someone with access to either ancestry or the 1912 birth fiches mind looking up the registration district for Winifred Alice HILLS b.1912

Hoping for Rotorua.

Regards
Beg

[Girl Guide]

Hi Beg

Thanks for your pm which I have read. 

I have a few credits with Ancestry so have had a quick look and found the below

Name:   Winifred Alice Hills
Birth Date:   Jul-Aug-Sep 1912
Registration Place:   Rangiora, Canterbury, New Zealand
Folio Number:   4494

Definitely not Rotorua is it!

So now we have to work out which England she married if she did marry an England.

I've just looked at the burial record for Winifred Thomas and something is wrong here.  This lady was 71 when she died in 1987 which gives a birth year of 1916!  Married to a Cyril Albert Thomas.

Winifred Alice is said to have died in 1979 so definitely something wrong.

Need to find Cyril's marriage to see what Winifred's maiden name was.  Supposed to have married in 1937 but I wouldn't assume that is correct.

Seems that the research has gone a bit adrift in this case.

[minniehaha]

"Need to find Cyril's marriage to see what Winifred's maiden name was.  Supposed to have married in 1937 but I wouldn't assume that is correct."

The above is a quote from your last message Girl Guide.

I sent details of Winifred's marriage to you by PM. And yes, you may assume that this information is correct.

See also death notices (1968) sent by PM for Lucy Alice England.

See also death notice (1958) sent by PM for Walter England.

Minniehaha.

[Girl Guide]

Minnie did you see my earlier post #92? Part repeated below

"Now can either of you help with something that puzzles me on the list of descendants that I have?

Two girls said to be the children of Walter Frederick and Lucy Alice, they are:-

Lucy Olive England born 1912 in Auckland

Winifred Alice England born 31 August 1912 in Rotorua, died 1979

I can't get my head around the idea that Lucy Alice gave birth to two children in the same year in two different places!  I did find a birth record for Lucy but couldn't find anything for Winifred.  I don't know where to find records of Rotorua births."

For some reason I can't find the pm with the Winifred marriage details.  I don't know if may have accidentally deleted it.  Still a bit new to the pm's at the moment.

Can you follow what I was trying to say with the Lucy/Winifred scenario? 

The Winifred who married Cyril Thomas died in 1987 aged 71 which gives a birth year of 1916.  The Winifred on the descendants list is said to have died in 1979 born in 1912.  This is why I am wondering if the 1912 Winifred is NOT the child of Walter F and Lucy A.

Hopefully you can follow that?

[minniehaha]

I don't know why (or how) a Winifred Alice has come into the picture.

See my reply #63.......

Winifred (no Alice) Thomas nee England, died in 1987. Her birth date recorded as 3.4.1916.


Minniehaha.

[Girl Guide]

I think the only way I can get this confusion of the Winifreds sorted out is to get the marriage certificate for Winifred marrying Cyril Thomas.

I am assuming it will give me her father's name as we do with UK certificates?

Can someone pm me with what I need to know so that I can order the marriage cert. please?  It should clear up the confusion that I am in.

I gather that the best way is to order a printout.  What website do I order the marriage cert. from?

Thanks very much.