Author Topic: Availability of Parish Registers  (Read 15485 times)

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Availability of Parish Registers
« Reply #90 on: Monday 30 November 15 13:24 GMT (UK) »
If by literacy you mean the ability to write a coherent English sentence, free of spelling and punctuation errors, then I am in complete agreement with Guy! ;D  Some of the posts on RootsChat have to be seen to be believed!
And they are the ones I ignore! ::)

lol.  Don't know what G Clark's criteria were.

It seems to me he laid a lot of weight on the figures supplied by Clarke (2000) who used the following works
Sources: 1750s-1920s, Schofield (1973), men and women who sign marriage resisters. The north, 1630s-1740s, Houston (1982), witnesses who sign court depositions. Norwich Diocese, 1580s-1690s, Cressy (1977), witnesses who sign ecclesiastical court declarations.

In other words the figures were deduced by looking at signatures, or lack of on official sources where the subject was possibly told to make his/her mark.
That does not mean the figures are inaccurate but it does not give a full picture of literacy of the times

Cheers
Guy
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.

Online dowdstree

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Re: Availability of Parish Registers
« Reply #91 on: Monday 30 November 15 13:44 GMT (UK) »
Just a couple of points I would like to make -

1.   My dad said that both of his grannies could neither read nor write. During my family research I have found this to be almost correct. One granny could write her name which I have proof of on her marriage/childrens birth certificates. She died in 1938.
The other one has no signature only an X on all documentation. She died in 1945.

2.  Lets not be too harsh on others here about their spelling or grammar. Obviously it is easy to hit the wrong key or they may have a problem such as dyslexia.

Come on folks lets ease up on each other - that's not what we are about.

Dorrie (Doris)
Small, County Antrim & Dundee
Dickson, County Down & Dundee
Madden, County Westmeath
Patrick, Fife
Easson, Fife
Leslie, Fife
Paterson, Fife

Offline Sloe Gin

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Re: Availability of Parish Registers
« Reply #92 on: Monday 30 November 15 14:10 GMT (UK) »
Apparently the 1911 census was filled in by the householders rather than the enumerators, I dont know if that happened in every household but if so then it does appear people were more literate back then than we give them credit for.

All the census forms were completed by the householders*.  Unfortunately those from pre-1911 censuses were destroyed, and only the enumerators' books were retained.  These contain transcriptions of the original forms, so are a secondary source, not primary.

* Or by someone who assisted them if they were not able to write. 
UK census content is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk  Transcriptions are my own.

Offline rodc

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Re: Availability of Parish Registers
« Reply #93 on: Saturday 13 February 16 11:33 GMT (UK) »
Dm Tomo the op raises a valid point and it is interesting to read the various opinions cast out by the audience, but that original point is really to do with what we the 'public' actually receive in exchange for having govts control our lives.
Of course ALL records should be openly available not subjected to the whims of various persons with selective purposes.
You paid for those records with your taxes and to have them offered at a price is tantamont to double billing. Would you pay for your tv license twice?
For us who can't access the record halls or such as we live far away the price and efforts demanded of us to enable the purpose we require such records to be available is extortionate.
Perhaps it would be of more sense to remember that the church and govt belongs to us and not we to them - and thus they should do our bidding in an open manner.
Free BMD and its partner sites exemplifies the best of purposes unlike so many of the moneygrabbing  gen sites.
But that's just my opinion and my 2 cents worth!
Keep at it DM Tomo - never admit you are not free.


Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Availability of Parish Registers
« Reply #94 on: Saturday 13 February 16 13:57 GMT (UK) »
Dm Tomo the op raises a valid point and it is interesting to read the various opinions cast out by the audience, but that original point is really to do with what we the 'public' actually receive in exchange for having govts control our lives.
Of course ALL records should be openly available not subjected to the whims of various persons with selective purposes.

Which is what happens here in the UK!
Public Records are archived in designated archives and the public have a right to inspect them.

You paid for those records with your taxes and to have them offered at a price is tantamont to double billing. Would you pay for your tv license twice?

This is where you go wrong in your assumptions.
Taxes pay to create the records and to archive the records. The public who wish to view the records are charged a fee in order to view the records.
That fee covers the cost of the viewing facilities plus the costs to staff the facilites and the costs involved in retrieving the records from and returning the records to the storage.
Why should the taxpayer pay for such costs?

For us who can't access the record halls or such as we live far away the price and efforts demanded of us to enable the purpose we require such records to be available is extortionate.

Is it, think how much it would cost you to visit the archive.
Instead in many cases it is possible to view the records in your home.
This facility requires either archive staff copying the original record each time a copy is required. This has costs not only time & money but materials and possibly damage to the original record as well.
An alternative is to allow a third party to digitise the record and make that available by other means such as online.
This also has a number of costs but lessens the damage to the original record.
However digitising is not cheap and the costs involved need to be covered.


Perhaps it would be of more sense to remember that the church and govt belongs to us and not we to them - and thus they should do our bidding in an open manner.

The church and the government are different entities.
The Church of England is a privately funded body which compiles its own records some of which are publically accessible by law, these are not public records.
In a similar way other churches compile their own records some of which are accessible to the public some are not.

Free BMD and its partner sites exemplifies the best of purposes unlike so many of the moneygrabbing  gen sites.
But that's just my opinion and my 2 cents worth!
Keep at it DM Tomo - never admit you are not free.

FreeBMD and its partner sites are charities funded by the public and can only afford to supply records free of charge because the public donate money to them to allow them to compile and host the records; I believe they have also benefited from a grant or grants from the Government in the past.

The “moneygrabbing  gen sites” as you call them are commercial sites who have to pay their own costs and in most cases pay licence fees to host records held by government archives such as the GRO.
For example census records are licenced to the various commercial sites, this costs the companies money which has to be found somewhere.

The public basically have a choice of travelling to the archive and viewing the record free of any additional charges, paying more taxes to enable the archives to view digitised copies of the records in their own homes, or paying a commercial company a fee to enable them to view copies of the records at home.

Nothing is free but we do have a choice of who we pay and how much we pay.

Cheers
Guy
http://anguline.co.uk/Framland/index.htm   The site that gives you facts not promises!
http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

As we have gained from the past, we owe the future a debt, which we pay by sharing today.

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Availability of Parish Registers
« Reply #95 on: Saturday 13 February 16 18:39 GMT (UK) »
Absolutely right, Guy.  It's amazing what some people expect to get for nothing - which amounts to expecting others to provide their services for nothing (or very little).

And Rodc complains at 'govts controlling our lives'.  There will be times when he may be grateful for govts controlling others' lives - when they are a public nuisance, for example.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline roopat

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Re: Availability of Parish Registers
« Reply #96 on: Saturday 13 February 16 18:56 GMT (UK) »
Just a couple of points I would like to make -

1.   My dad said that both of his grannies could neither read nor write. During my family research I have found this to be almost correct. One granny could write her name which I have proof of on her marriage/childrens birth certificates. She died in 1938.
The other one has no signature only an X on all documentation. She died in 1945.

Dorrie (Doris)


My grandmother 1899-1969 could sign her name perfectly well. However she could not read or write, probably dyslexic. Her family's 1911 census entry looks like it was written by a 6 year-old. By contrast my other grandmother had been a pupil teacher, was an excellent pianist and singer, and could speak a little French. (She always told us she learned this from the French fishermen in Ramsgate - oh là là  ;D )
They both came from the same very humble backgrounds.

Pat
King, Richardson, Hathaway, Sweeney, Young - Chelsea, London
Richardson - Rayne Essex
Steward, Hindry, Hewitt - Norfolk, North Walsham area

Offline ScouseBoy

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Re: Availability of Parish Registers
« Reply #97 on: Tuesday 26 April 16 22:16 BST (UK) »
You can see the Parochial Fees Table for searches in Church Registers at https://www.churchofengland.org/weddings-baptisms-funerals/fees.aspx

Stan
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Offline BradMajors

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Re: Availability of Parish Registers
« Reply #98 on: Friday 29 April 16 23:51 BST (UK) »

You paid for those records with your taxes and to have them offered at a price is tantamont to double billing. Would you pay for your tv license twice?

This is where you go wrong in your assumptions.
Taxes pay to create the records and to archive the records. The public who wish to view the records are charged a fee in order to view the records.
That fee covers the cost of the viewing facilities plus the costs to staff the facilites and the costs involved in retrieving the records from and returning the records to the storage.
Why should the taxpayer pay for such costs?
By law, a fee can not be charged for viewing marriage registers still held by the incumbent.  However, you may find it difficult to get the incumbent to obey the law.

You can see the Parochial Fees Table for searches in Church Registers at https://www.churchofengland.org/weddings-baptisms-funerals/fees.aspx

Stan
  This reply may help a new query posted today.
The above are the fees if the incumbent performs the search, not if a member of the public performs the search himself.