Author Topic: Edward W.Spokes  (Read 14118 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Edward W.Spokes
« Reply #36 on: Sunday 08 November 15 23:57 GMT (UK) »
If you scroll down through your thread to the option "topic completed" you can easily notify the volunteer moderator who will move off this board.

Cheers,  JM
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Offline jaro

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Re: Edward W.Spokes
« Reply #37 on: Monday 09 November 15 00:44 GMT (UK) »
I think its better if its completed between you & I ,I think WE have said all there is to be said

Offline majm

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Re: Edward W.Spokes
« Reply #38 on: Monday 09 November 15 00:55 GMT (UK) »
I think its better if its completed between you & I ,I think WE have said all there is to be said

I am unsure of your meaning "I think WE have said all there is to be said".   I have no knowledge of you, or your own research, or your research on behalf of anyone.  I  simply looked up my own hardcopy paper resources of the 1903 Electoral rolls, found the particular roll that had been cited, and looked through that particular roll and as a direct consequence I confirmed another RChatter's post, (hopefully as part of the validating of that RChatter's own searchings for you).    It is not my place to comment on if your thread is better as a completed thread or not, I have simply explained how you can notify a volunteer moderator to complete your topic.

Add
Doubtful if you can effectively join the dots between the 1858 baptism for Edward, son of Fanny and the chap who spent 5 months in the Port Macquarie Gaol in the 1870s, and the lass who is shown as the mum to Clara on the NSW BDM index.   

Cheers,  JM
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Offline cando

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Re: Edward W.Spokes
« Reply #39 on: Monday 09 November 15 02:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi Does anyone have any information on Edward W Spokes? He was born in 1854 I think in Port Macquarie N.S.W. Australia.I would appreciate anything concerning him as I have no parent details ,no marriage details or children.Regards Jaro

Quote
thanks for your comments & I already had all the info on the charge & conviction.I think we can call this subject closed.Jaro

So you did find some information about Edward after all ::).

This is a public forum and the thread is not between two people.  Any member of rootschat can contribute information.  We are all volunteers who give freely of our time and resources and you can simply say thank you and leave it at that.  I also suggest you contact a moderator to have COMPLETED placed in the topic heading on your request if that is your wish.

I will add that Edward's five months in Port Macquarie gaol was with hard labour.

I find your attitude quite strange especially as you state this is not your family. 

Cando


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Offline ~MERLIN~

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Re: Edward W.Spokes
« Reply #40 on: Monday 09 November 15 04:07 GMT (UK) »
Do you have the actual date Edward SPOKES committed the offence?
You would need to show us proof. Not a family story...

Are there any notations added to the birth certificate for Clara COLEMAN in regards to the father or the reason why the child was illegitimate?

Because without any proof all I can see is that you are using him as a scapegoat for the illegitimate birth of Clara COLEMAN born 14 April, 1876 which was just under 6 months after the date of his conviction  :-\

The birth date & registration for Clara COLEMAN is available to the public:
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/



Offline majm

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Re: Edward W.Spokes
« Reply #41 on: Monday 09 November 15 04:26 GMT (UK) »
Good points Cando and Merlin,

I had been considering the "W" .... as in :

There's that "W" in the topic heading .... what significance would that be, in light of the Police Gazette reports, the birth certificate, the baptismal record, the electoral roll, and the submitted public trees at Ancestry.   

Oh well, the topic is to be completed, so there doesn't seem to be much point in getting to any other offline resources that I may hold.

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Edward W.Spokes
« Reply #42 on: Monday 09 November 15 06:07 GMT (UK) »
Additional thoughts
When she died, the informant thought Clara's parents were..

6844/1930 HOLBORROW Clara
Father Robert
Mother Sophia
At KEMPSEY

She had married using  the surname TEAGUE, the name of the man her mother married.

Mother's marriage
5128/1882 TEAGUE Robert Nicholas
COLEMAN   Sophia
At KEMPSEY

Clara's.

4332/1894 HOLBROW Richard
TEAGUE Clara
At KEMPSEY

However, if she had been born inside TEAGUE/COLEMAN marriage, she would be marrying at the age of 13 or14.

Sue


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Offline MrsWheelie_1979

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Re: Edward W.Spokes
« Reply #43 on: Sunday 17 January 16 10:07 GMT (UK) »
Hello everyone, I am new to this site. I have been reading with interest the information on Edward Spokes.
My husband's grandmother is Clara Coleman Holborow (wife of Richard Holborow), known to many as Clara Teague. Her mother is Sophia Coleman. We believe that Edward Spokes / Edward W Spokes is the biological father of Clara.
My father-in-law, Wrex Holborow would never speak about his family. He in fact told me he was 9 and 11 when his parents died. It was only after he died that I found out that he was in fact 19 and 21 when they died. So we have always wondered why he would not talk about his parents and generations before. For a long time I believed that Clara's father was Robert Teague. It wasn't until I purchased a copy of Clara's birth certificate that I found out there was no father listed.
Only recently I stumbled across the court case about Edward Spokes and Sophia Coleman and the reason for the court case.  Unless Sophia had another relationship other than that with Edward, we have added Edward as the 'probable' biological father of Clara.  We have no idea when the actual ‘act’ took place and how long after that, that the court case happened. If anyone can tell me if there are actual court details that say when Edward actually entered the home of Sophia and her parents, that would give us a better idea of timelines.
The fact that Sophia married a man who from all accounts was a well-known, well liked gentleman, community member, it was suggested to us that had Sophia been a person of low standing in the community, Robert would not have taken up with her. A lot of this is conjecture and without descendants of the family in some way confirming what we believe, we are in a position to be corrected, if someone can clarify any of what we believe.
Our belief that Edward Spokes is Clara's father has created quite a bit of angst for some descendants. The possibility that if Edward is Clara's father and if Edward is in fact a descendant of a convict and an aboriginal / part aboriginal woman, has proven to be a stumbling block as far as anyone coming forward with information about Edward, Clara, Edward's ancestors.
We are not trying to upset anyone in any way. We cannot change the past. We just want to have the most correct family tree as we can, so our future generations know where they came from. The circumstances that may have led to the birth of Clara could be as brutal as Edward committing an act against Sophia that was not welcomed, or it could have been that there was a relationship between Sophia and Edward and they were caught. The fact that Edward was a few years older and that Sophia was 16 may have led the parents to be pressured into making this a legal issue.
This far into the future, I have no idea what is true. I would very much like to hear from anyone who can shed any light in any way on Clara and who her biological father is, and any other information on Edward, his descendant, ancestors that we can add to our family tree.
Cheers
Janice

Offline Dundee

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Re: Edward W.Spokes
« Reply #44 on: Monday 18 January 16 03:07 GMT (UK) »
The circumstances that may have led to the birth of Clara could be as brutal as Edward committing an act against Sophia that was not welcomed, or it could have been that there was a relationship between Sophia and Edward and they were caught. The fact that Edward was a few years older and that Sophia was 16 may have led the parents to be pressured into making this a legal issue.
This far into the future, I have no idea what is true.

Just to clarify, Edward SPOKES was charged with "being in the dwelling house of Edward COLEMAN, Kempsey, with intent to commit a rape...", and the quarter session returns show that he was convicted under the Vagrant Act.  If you want to speculate it seems likely that whatever evidence was presented did not prove that an offence was committed against Sophia.

Very few of the quarter sessions papers have survived:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/019f1/

The gaol entrance records state that he was discharged by special remission in Jan 1876.  I don't know what that last word is.  This record has not been indexed on Ancestry and the years indexed are incorrect, so search instead for Charles WOODERSON in 1874 and you should find the right page.

The fact that Sophia married a man who from all accounts was a well-known, well liked gentleman, community member, it was suggested to us that had Sophia been a person of low standing in the community, Robert would not have taken up with her.

As far as I can see, Clara was raised as their daughter so she wasn't a secret but I don't think you would ever know what Robert was told about the events that led to the birth.  Robert and Sophia were married on 12 Jan 1882 and their daughter was born on 20 Jun 1882 so perhaps they were encouraged to marry.

Debra  :)