1939 Register up and running (Part 2)

[Guy Etchells]

Its only £25 if you don't have an annual subscription, as Andy said.  If you already have an annual subscription then you apply to FindMyPast directly and they wave the fee.  You don't have to purchase a  subscription and pay the £25.

Hiya

Yes that may be true however not everyone has an annual subscription which is my point. I cannot afford an annual subscription and can't afford to pay £25 for each of the entries I need to see. In cases where a person is known to be dead it is my view that it is wrong to charge to see that info. In particular I think it is wrong to charge close relatives to do this especially if they can prove the person is dead. Surely if the register can be viewed for free at TNA then if people can provide evidence that a person is dead there should be a way for TNA to unredact the entry (or get it done by FindmyPast) rather than making the person pay for it. I strongly believe that this excessive fee is highly unfair to people, and believe it should not be charged if evidence is provided of a persons death.

In that case write or email your MP and ask him/her to get the law changed that requires the National Archives to raise the charge.
If enough people do so the law will be changed and the chrge removed until then the charge will stay.

Cheers
Guy

[groom]

I think what you have to remember is that up until now you were able to view the records but it cost a lot more than £25, we would still be paying this if FindMyPast hadn't taken on the job of scanning them. At least now, using all the tips given here and on other threads, we can get a good idea of where people were in 1939 without paying anything.  On the records that I have unlocked I've found it very easy to work out who the closed entries must be rather than having them opened. If there are a lot of records that people need to see perhaps they need to work out whether it would in fact be cheaper to take out a sub to FindMyPast.

 

[MattD30]

Hi Andy

Thanks for the reply. I personally think it is wrong to charge someone to see a file relating to a close relative when it is possible to prove that the person is deceased. To me £25 seems to be an excessively high price, especially if we have to buy a subscription to the website as well. It is just thankful that I already know a great deal about my grandmother so don't necessarily need to see her entry (yet). I think it would make more sense though if closed entries were included in the index and marked 'closed' there. This way you might see a reference to 'John H Smith - closed'. You wouldn't be able to view the entry, but at least you would know what part of the country a person was in and therefore be able to decide if it was your relative. You could then pay the fee to view the entire entry, whereas at the moment if there are several people with the same name you don't see them in the list so you don't know if a closed record which you want opened actually is the person you are looking for. In short you could open different closed records (at £25 a go) but then find they don't relate to you or the person you are after. A huge amount of money down the drain. :-( :-(

MattD30 the £25 is levied by the National Archives due to successive government’s demands that they cover their costs otherwise the cost has to be paid by the taxpayer.

That is the amount that they have worked out on average it costs them to undertake the work involved in finding the entry, checking and removing the redaction.
The cost has nothing to do with Findmypast.

If you want to blame anyone the blame falls squarely with Tony Blair’s Labour government who brought in the Data Protection Act (the Act that requires the information to be redacted).

It makes no difference whether the person is a close relation or a complete strangers the DPA requires the information is kept from the general public’s view until the subject is deceased.
Unfortunately even the subject’s name is considered personal information as the subject may be identified by it.

Cheers
Guy

Hi Guy

It may be entirely true that the £25 fee is set by TNA and not by FindmyPast, but it is still an excessive amount. I see no acceptable reason to have to pay £25 to view information relating to my own grandmother (or other relatives) when I know she is dead and have the evidence (ie her death certificate). There are several people in my tree whom I have found in the register with other people in the house who are marked as 'closed' and obviously I don't need to see them all, but when it comes to close or immediate family it seems rather harsh to impose that fee on people. I can certainly understand the need to keep the identities of people confidential but I repeat what I have previously stated, if I am looking for a John Smith and don't know where he is on that date, how can I identify him if his record is closed? Why on earth should I pay £25 to see each entry, do they refund you if the entry is wrong? There must be some method to help researchers identify which 'closed' entry is the person they are looking for. Yes protect people's identity (in the case of people who are alive) but if a person is dead and there is evidence of this then £25 is in my view an unacceptably excessive amount to charge someone (especially if that person also has to buy a copy of the person's death certificate to prove the death). I don't think there should be no charge to get the file opened but where evidence is provided of the death the fee should not be this high. After all in my case my grandmother has been dead for 13 years and at the moment I have no idea where she was living on the night the register was taken or what name she was using, therefore I see no reason to pay £25 to view each entry which could be her. As I mentioned above there needs to be a way of narrowing down the number of 'closed' entries to allow you to pinpoint which is yours and then you only need to pay one fee. On the flip side of this my materal grandmother is on the register and her entry is open, even though she died post 2000! How can the details of someone who died in 1992 be classed as closed and someone who died in 2012 have their file classed as 'open'.

To me the whole matter is very confusing. If you don't know where someone was living when the register was taken but have evidence they are dead then you are going to end up paying £25 for each possible candidate. On top of that where is the money going, what exactly is the £25 used for? If it's just administration then it is an unacceptable amount in my view.

Am I not allowed to know where my grandmother was on that date, or what name she was using? That is how this appears and it is highly unfair in my view.

Anyhow enough moaning from me, after all this is not the fault of Rootschat or any Rootschat users and there's no point us all arguing about these matters. I am going to TNA tomorrow and will insist on getting some clarity on this matter and see if they can help provide a way to identify the correct 'closed' entry, after all if they want us to pay to have a file opened then we should have a way to identify the correct entry and therefore only pay once.

Matt

[MattD30]

How accurate would the date of birth on the register be? I have found the entry which I believe relates to my great grandmother Elizabeth Donovan (nee Sullivan) and yet the year of birth on the file does not match that from other sources (marriage certificate, death certificate, 1911 census - all of which give a varying year). I am hoping to use the date of her birth from the register to trace her birth.

Thanks
Matt

[groom]

How accurate would the date of birth on the register be?

Presumably only as good as the person filling in the form knew. At least it should be more accurate than the census when just an age was asked for, rather than an actual date.

[coombs]

I have a few where the DOB is a year or 2 out, it was still a time where many did not know their exact age, I do find they tended to know the day and month.

I have found a few spouses that I was not aware of for ancestor siblings.

[andycand]

Hi Andy

Thanks for the reply. I personally think it is wrong to charge someone to see a file relating to a close relative when it is possible to prove that the person is deceased. To me £25 seems to be an excessively high price, especially if we have to buy a subscription to the website as well. It is just thankful that I already know a great deal about my grandmother so don't necessarily need to see her entry (yet). I think it would make more sense though if closed entries were included in the index and marked 'closed' there. This way you might see a reference to 'John H Smith - closed'. You wouldn't be able to view the entry, but at least you would know what part of the country a person was in and therefore be able to decide if it was your relative. You could then pay the fee to view the entire entry, whereas at the moment if there are several people with the same name you don't see them in the list so you don't know if a closed record which you want opened actually is the person you are looking for. In short you could open different closed records (at £25 a go) but then find they don't relate to you or the person you are after. A huge amount of money down the drain. :-( :-(

The request to see the information on a closed person is a FOI request and your request needs to be verified. You could ask at TNA how that is done, and who does it, but there would be some time involved in verifying that the persons information can be released.

Andy

[andycand]

This link which someone posted earlier has some interesting information about not finding the person you are looking for
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/

Andy

Sadly that link is coming up as 'page not found' Andy?

I'm not sure why it didn't come up, it does for me. If you still can't access it try this

From Home Page http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ select Find Guides box
the enter 1939 register in Search Box and then select the Guide

Andy

[suey]

Am I going senile?  Searched the index, clicked on name got the preview, where has the folio and piece number gone ?