How to find who was living at an addres at the time

[ppasmith]

this may sound too simple, but do bride and groom need to list address/residence on the marriage record? Have you seen a direct copy of the application, or only a transcription? Pam Smith

[notaninch]

this may sound too simple, but do bride and groom need to list address/residence on the marriage record? Have you seen a direct copy of the application, or only a transcription? Pam Smith

Hi Pam I have a copy of the actual marriage certificate from 1850 and certainly then they gave their address which was 67 Murray Street, Hoxton. In later censuses Sarah states she was born in Middlesex London, but I can't find her in the 1841 census. She married at Shoreditch registry office and was living nearby in Hoxton her husband to be lived there too. Raphael her husband had come to London from Cologne late 1848 so I didn't  anticipate him being on 1840 census. I can't find Sarah's father either - in 1850 she stated he was a baker and was alive - the 1851 census was less then 6 months later and I cannot find a death record for him or a record in London that is a match for him. By the time of the 1851 Census Sarah and Raphael had moved North and I can find them ok. Not sure if I will ever find Sarah her father and any other family  before the 1851 census. Ironically I can trace Raphael William Imhoff's family back to 1576....in Cologne

Peter

[ShaunJ]

 

in 1850 she stated he was a baker and was alive

I don't think you can assume that he was alive solely on the basis that the marriage certificate doesn't say "deceased" . People don't always record on the marriage register that their father is deceased.

[notaninch]

in 1850 she stated he was a baker and was alive

I don't think you can assume that he was alive solely on the basis that the marriage certificate doesn't say "deceased" . People don't always record on the marriage register that their father is deceased.

Whilst I agree you should not make assumptions and I'm not. Both Sarah and Raphael stated their parents occupation Thomas (a Baker - Sarah's father) William (a sculptor - Raphael's father) and that they were alive at the time of their wedding in October 1850. Indeed Raphael's father died in Cologne in 1858 - I have his death certificate and I also have documentation showing William was working in Cologne Cathedral at the time of his son's wedding on some major pieces of sculpture that adorn the main chancel leading to the altar. So back to my brick wall I can't find Thomas or Sarah in the 1841 Census so I'm no further forward..... Yet I can track Raphael and William in fact in 1844 Raphael was exhibiting  some major pieces at the Cologne Fair in 1844, and he was working in Vienna and Italy between 1845 and 1848 before moving to London late 1848 early 1849. I'm am quite thorough in my investigations and always endeavour to corroborate facts etc.
 

[jennifer c]

I have been to Cologne Cathedral and it is breath taking.

Jennifer

[notaninch]

I have been to Cologne Cathedral and it is breath taking.

Jennifer

Yes it certainly is - some say the greatest in the whole of Europe. He also did all the sculpture work (or should I say artwork - indeed he was also credited with art too) on the outside of the Aachen Theatre House and many of the monuments in Cologne's main cemetery - it is for that reason I can find so much information about him. He came from a long line (family) of sculptors who worked across Europe for centuries - I'm back to the l6th century and still going. But my problem is tracing Sarah and her family back in London pre 1850.

[ShaunJ]

Both Sarah and Raphael stated their parents occupation Thomas (a Baker - Sarah's father) William (a sculptor - Raphael's father) and that they were alive at the time of their wedding in October 1850.

That would be a very unusual statement on a marriage register. You said earlier "presumably he was still alive at the time".

If this Sarah Osborn was the one baptised at St Leonard Shoreditch in 1817 (parents Thomas, a labourer, and Ann, Hackney Road) then she had a brother John Stock Osborn born and baptised in 1814.

Noting that Thomas Gough of 67 Murray Street was married to a Jemima Allshorn, I did wonder if Osborn might be a corruption of Allshorn but Jemima's older sister Sarah seems to have married a William Hickson in 1841, and their father was a William. 

[notaninch]

Both Sarah and Raphael stated their parents occupation Thomas (a Baker - Sarah's father) William (a sculptor - Raphael's father) and that they were alive at the time of their wedding in October 1850.

That would be a very unusual statement on a marriage register. You said earlier "presumably he was still alive at the time".

If this Sarah Osborn was the one baptised at St Leonard Shoreditch in 1817 (parents Thomas, a labourer, and Ann, Hackney Road) then she had a brother John Stock Osborn born and baptised in 1814.

Noting that Thomas Gough of 67 Murray Street was married to a Jemima Allshorn, I did wonder if Osborn might be a corruption of Allshorn but Jemima's older sister Sarah seems to have married a William Hickson in 1841, and their father was a William.

Shaun I agree - normally I would expect either their name and occupation or that plus (deceased) but it states living for both..nothing suprises me about documents anymore - I've had deceased when they are still alive, I've had German born in Ireland (when they never even visited the place - nor their parents but emigrated to USA). 

I must admit I've looked at the record you refer to Thomas Osborn married Ann Littlehales 1814 and had Sarah, John Stock and Elizabeth Mary Ann....but not convinced yet possibly because of the occupation...did people change jobs retrain back then ??