Rachael Poulton also known as Angerstein (1843 - 1913)

[lizdb]

This is probably George Ovenden.
With his wife and family - so mot free to marry Rachael. Presumably kept her as a mistress, either leadinf a double life, or with his wifes knowledge

1871
79 Guilford Street, St Pancras
George Ovenden 40 surveyor bn Middlesex
Anna M 40 wife bn Bedford
George C 19 bn Hackney
William 16 bn Kensington
Henry 14 bn Kensington
Edward 13 bn Holborn
Charles 11 bn Paddington
MAry Swannell? 24 sister in law annuitant bn Bedford
Charlotte Reeling general servant

So the George Ovenden, witnessing the marriage, could be Georginas half brother, if the two families were in contact?

[Tam the Dooter]

The 1871 census shows a George Ovenden, surveyor (40 b Middlesex) with wife Anna and several children at 79 Guilford St, St Pancras: RG10/215/89/30.

Perhaps you already know about George?

I do and as indicated he seems to have been the father of all Rachael's children and probably financially supported them. He clearly appeared at their weddings and baptisms. There is a further thread to follow to wonder why after the death of his wife in 1883, he and Rachael did not marry. I'd suspect class at the root of it.

[avm228]

He clearly appeared at their weddings and baptisms.

The baptism registers don't tell you who was present - they name the parent(s) but that does not tell you that any named parent was present or even necessarily alive at the time of baptism.

Marriage registers don't tell you who was present other than the witnesses (usually 2, sometimes more).  George Ovenden was present as a witness at Georgina's marriage but did he witness other marriages that you know of?  Again, the naming of a father at a marriage is not evidence that he was present or even necessarily alive.

[rumpuscat]

Hi, Tam. I'm Larkspur's cousin.  Rachael is my GGGrandmother via her son George Henry Edward.  His eldest daughter Gertrude Mary was my paternal grandmother.  I have been researching Rachael for many years and have never found any evidence for a marriage or even any to show where the name 'Angerstein' came from.  There is no known connection with John Julius Angerstein.  George Ovenden of course was married to someone else at the time of his relationship with Rachael.  There is no doubt that George Ovenden was the father of Rachael's children as his name is on their birth certificates meaning that he would have had to go with her to register the births.

[Tam the Dooter]

He clearly appeared at their weddings and baptisms.

Baptism registers don't tell you who was present - they name the parent(s) but that does not tell you that any named parent was present or even necessarily alive at the time of baptism.

Marriage registers don't tell you who was present other than the witnesses (usually 2, sometimes more).  George Ovenden was present as a witness at Georgina's marriage but did he witness other marriages that you know of?  Again, the naming of a father at a marriage is not evidence that he was present or even necessarily alive.

Thanks for the clarification - I had always assumed (wrongly) that unless the person was labelled as deceased they were present.

[lizdb]

Anna dies 1883, but failing to find them in 1881 at the mo.

When did George die? Was he still an Ovenden? Or did he use Angerstein?
Did he leave a Will? If so did he name Rachel or any of the children he had (we think) with her?

[lizdb]

George Ovenden was present as a witness at Georgina's marriage

And yet she does not name him as father - that is still bugging me. It does not make sense.
Especially as the following week brother George marries, from same address, at sawe church, and names George Angerstein as father.

That is why I threw in the possibility that the witness may be her half brother rather than her alleged father.

[..claire..]

Hi

Have you checked the wedding cert on Anc* of Florence Emily ANGERSTEIN and Joseph REEVES in 1890 ?

The vicar has the surname Angerstein crossed out and has written at the bottom " should read Florence Emily Poulton". There is something else written but I am having difficulty reading it

George Ovenden is a witness

claire

[rumpuscat]

George died in 1898 and was registered by his daughter, Anna.