Shades of Downton Abbey - The Family "Shame"

[donjsmith]

Father did not know much about his ancestors in Gloucester, he came here to Canada as a young child with his parents.

Just started to do some ancestry research and discovered why.  Grandfather got grandmother pregnant and married her in her fifth month....not the thing to do in 1907.  It looks like they left the country and left family behind.  I would love to learn more about my great cousins etc. so anything on siblings of

Wilfred Bertie Smith, born Gloucester 1881, (listed in 1891 and 1901 census.  Married April 1, 1907 to Florence Annie Knott.  That is all I know about my Grandfather!   He had three sons, my father Wilfred Leslie, and his brothers Harold and Roy.

Bertie's father was William Smith, dob 1842 in Leamington Warwickshire (married to Laura Bayliss)

Any help in finding siblings of Wilfred Bertie Smith would be greatly appreciated.

[AMBLY]

Starting the family on the wrong side of the marriage, or indeed illegitimate birth where no marriage of the parents ever occurred, was much, much more common than you'd think through all the decades, before and since 1907!

So frequently do I come across the evidence of it in research into my own and other families, I wonder why there was even a stigma attached (though of course there was). I'm not sure that Wilfred Leslie's  conception before marriage would be the reason they left the UK for Canada -  after all, they did marry and the child, your father, was legitimately born. His birth in the UK four months after the marriage, well -  the scandal if there was to be any, was already out, so to speak  .

They went to Canada in around 1910, during a hugely significant wave of immigration to Canada. There would have been much about to tempt and lure them there, with promises of a better work & home life and future.

http://www.british-immigrants-in-montreal.com/canadian-immigration-early-1900s.html

I noticed you mention your father's two siblings : Harold and Roy.
The 1911 Canada Census appears to show another brother, Cecil - the same age as Harold, both born Jun 1910 Ontario.

Since this topic is about siblings of your grandfather, Wilfred Bertie SMITH, I'll post next the 'back story' of who we're looking for - the details of those Census etc that you mentioned.

That will help us know what & who we're looking for.

Cheers
AMBLY

[AMBLY]

MARRIAGE: Dec Qtr 1869, Warwick
Louisa BAYLISS
William SMITH

CENSUS 1871: 13 Albert Street, Birmingham All Saints, Warwickshire
RG10-Piece 3129-Folio 83-Pg31
Head: William BRENTING 29, Police Constable, b
Wife: Louisa BRENTING 24,
Son: William BRENTING 10 mths
Boarder: William SMITH 30, Police Constable, b Leamington Warwickshire
Boarder: Louisa SMITH 22, Leamington Warwickshire
I think this is them - William's occupation is obviously different to that in later years; the marriage and his stated occupation there might clarify this.

BIRTH 1877: Jun Qtr,  Gloucester
Ellen Louisa SMITH

BIRTH 1880/1881: Mar Qtr 1881,  Gloucester
Wilfred Bertie SMITH
(registry in the March Qtr, means he was registered either Jan-Feb or Mar 1881, and therefore could have been born late Nov/Dec 1880. Wilfred's census in 1911 Canada, states he was born Dec 1880).

CENSUS 1881: 6 St James St, Gloucester (Barton), Gloucestershire
RG11-Piece 2536- Folio 96 -Pg 6 & 7
Head: William SMITH 39, R.R. Wagon Fitter, b Leamington Warwickshire
Wife: Louisa SMITH 34, b Leamington Warwickshire
Dau: Ellen Louisa SMITH 3, b Gloucester
Son: Wilfred Bartie SMITH 3 months, b Gloucester

BIRTH 1885: Mar Qtr, Gloucestershire
William SMITH
Probably the right Birth? The other Williams around the right time-frame  have middle names.

CENSUS 1891:  33 Victoria Street, Barton St Mary, Gloucester, Gloucestershire
RG12- Piece2017- Folio 70- Pg20
Head: William SMITH 49, Railway Wagon Fitter, b Leamington Warwickshire
Wife: Louisa SMITH 43, b Leamington Warwickshire
Son: Bertie W SMITH 10, Scholar, b Gloucester
F-in-Law: Thomas BAYLISS 73, b Leamington Warwickshire
Son: William SMITH 6, b Gloucester

Note: Daughter Ellen Louisa SMITH age abt 13 is not in the 1891 household. Cannot locate her elsewhere nor any death.

By the time of 1901 Census, the two sons are boarders in a household, below.  I can't find a trace of their parents in 1901 - and wonder if these are their deaths:

DEATH 1898: Sep Qtr 1898 Gloucester, Louisa SMITH, age 50
DEATH 1901: Mar Qtr 1901 Gloucester, William SMITH, age 50

CENSUS 1901: 6 Pembroke St, Gloucester, Gloucestershire
RG13- Piece 2430- Folio 85- Pg7
Head: Mary E HILYER 43, widow, Needle Woman (plain sewing), b Gloucester
Dau: Euphemia W HILYER 13, b Cheltenham
Dau: Marion L HILYER 9, b Cheltenham
Sister: Marion P STEPHENSON 58, single, b Scotland
Boarder: Alfred F REED 25, single, Engine Fitter, b Falmouth, Cornwall
Boarder: Wilfred B SMITH 20, single, Wheelwright's apprentice, b  b Gloucester
Boarder: William SMITH 16, Carriage maker's apprentice, b b Gloucester

It's somewhat unusual for the place & times, that from Marriage 1869 until Census 1891 (when Louisa is nearing the end of her child bearing capable years),  there are only three known children with the first  a long 8 years after the marriage :
*  Ellen Louisa SMITH 1877
*  Wilfred Bertie SMITH 1880
*  William SMITH ~1885

(This points to there perhaps having been a problem with fertility or in bringing a pregnancy to term, or early childhood deaths)

So it looks like your grandfather 'Bertie' (Wilfred Bertie) only had 2 siblings.

The Gauntlet is thrown, Rootschatters: 
Can't find Ellen Louisa SMITH  after the age of 3 in 1881.
And the beautifully named William SMITH, is perhaps going to be a challenge to find !

Cheers
AMBLY

[BumbleB]

St James, Gloucester
20 February 1881 - baptism of Wilfred Bertie, son of William and Louisa Smith - 4 St James Street.  William is a Fitter.
6 March 1881 - baptism of Ellen Louisa - all as above.

[Capetown]

There are previous threads on Rootschat Warwickshire - 1 February 2012 re:  Louisa (Laura) BAYLISS and William SMITH 1 February 2012


Gloucestershirebdm

http://ww3.gloucestershire.gov.uk/bmd/


Search by SMITH/BAYLIS(S) - will give a number of children registered - Gloucester South Hamlet - and a few SMITH children deaths - Gloucester South Hamlet

Births

Richard Samuel SMITH - 1875 - mother's maiden name BAYLISS
Emma May SMITH - 1876 - mother's maiden name BAYLISS
Horace SMITH - 1879 - mother's maiden name BAYLISS
Wilfred Bertie SMITH - 1880 - mother's maiden name BAYLIS

Death

Richard Samuel SMITH - 1875 - aged 7 weeks
Emma May SMITH - 1876 - 9 weeks
Horace SMITH 1879 - aged 25 days


------

As there a few SMITH - mother's maiden name BAYLISS



Gloucester : Kingsholm

Birth

William Nathan SMITH - mother's maiden name: Bayliss - 1873

Death

William Nathan SMITH - aged 7 weeks - 1873

[donjsmith]

 Thank you all so very much.  I cannot believe how quickly you were able to find what I could not.

Looks like  William Nathan Smith and Emma Louisa Smith are my next challenges.  Especially Emma Louisa who seems to have disappeared at 13 (married?)

You all really have skills and they are appreciated

[Capetown]

Up until the Marriage Act of 1923

Girls could marry at 14 (as did my x grandmother) and boys could marry at 12