BDM lookup please Melbourne, Victoria: Margaret CLEMENTS

[sceahlott]

Hi, I would really appreciate if someone would be able to lookup birth and/or death certificates for this child who died aged 1 year. We are trying to find any information on her father and hope these certificates might hold some clues.

the child was Margaret CLEMENTS born 1858 and died 1859 (I don't have any specific dates) she was registered in 1859 and reg number was 860 (I think this came from ancestry.com) in Melbourne.
Her father was Harold CLEMENTS and mother Grace HAGGART. Harold may also have had William in his name, Harold can also be another name for Henry.

I am sorry this is all the information I have. any help is greatly appreciated.
thanks
Leah

[judb]

I can only see Margaret's death on the indexes

Victoria, 1859, #860
Margaret CEMENTS, aged 1
Birth Year:   abt 1858
Father's name:   Harold
Mother's name:   Grace HAGGART

You can download images of the actual register pages from Victoria for $24.

Someone else may have better resources. 

Judith

[sceahlott]

wow, thanks Judith for the fast reply! that confirms what I have here.   Is their any information on where she is buried?

[judb]

The index doesn't show a burial - the certificate would, though.  The index that I have doesn't even show the place of death.   

Judith

[cando]

Not all the information has been transcribed to subscription only websites.  Places of death are not on the Victorian BDM index in that era, just the place of birth and remember not everyone bothered to register births.  Her place of burial should be on her death certificate. If she died in Melbourne there were two main cemeteries - Old Melbourne Cemetery now under the Victoria Market and the [New] Melbourne General Cemetery at Carlton. MGC do not have their burials online.

You can purchase an image of certificates online [$24] and immediately download
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

Information on Victorian death certificates.
 Date and place of death;
 name and surname;
 occupation of the deceased;
 sex and age;
 cause of death,
 duration of illness,
 medical attendant by whom certified and when he last saw deceased;
 name and surname of parents (if known) including mother's maiden surname        signature, description and address of the person who gave the information;  signature of deputy registrar, date and where registered,
 when and where buried,
 undertaker whom certified;
 name and religion of Minister, or names of witnesses of burial;
 place of birth of the deceased and how long he or she resided in the Australian           colonies or states (stating which),
 name of spouse,
 place of marriage,
 age at marriage;
 names and ages of children of the deceased.

From my resource.

Death
CLEMENTS Margaret
Father Harold  Mother Grace HAGGART
1859  1 year  Born Melbourne  Reg#860

The Argus  17 May 1859
POLICE
CITY COURT
Harold Clements was brought before tho Court, charged by City Inspector Dabbs with plying for hire with a dray which was not duly licensed, but which had the number of another man's dray fraudulently painted on it. The Bench inflicted a fine of 40s., for the double offence.

Cando

[sceahlott]

thank you cando and Judith, I appreciate you taking the time for this search.

[Dundee]

I see that Harold and Grace went to NZ.  The 1878 birth cert for their son Peter should give a place of birth for Harold.  Perhaps this is where the information re Lancashire comes from on this thread:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NEW-ZEALAND/2012-08/1345892137

The baptism which I think is the same Harold mentioned as marrying in the above thread (in Latin):

Haroldus CLEMENTS
Born: 29 May 1827
Baptised:    5 Aug 1827
St Nicholas, Lancashire, England (Catholic)
Father:    Gulielmi CLEMENTS (William)
Mother:    Margarita WILLIAMS (Margaret)

His merchant seaman records are available for a fee:

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/merchant-navy-seamen

If this is your Harold and he was already married it may be one reason why there appears to be no marriage in Victoria to Grace.

Debra 

[Dundee]

Harold and Margaret CLEMENTS were siblings, and Maria and James Harper KIRKHAM were siblings.

MARRIAGE
8 Apr 1846
St Mary, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire

Harold CLEMENTS, Minor, Book Keeper, Bachelor, Bootle
Father: William Clements, Engraver
Maria Riding KIRKHAM, Full Age, Spinster, Bootle
Father: Thomas Kirkham, Deceased, Upholsterer
 
Witnesses: Margaret Clements & Richard Kelly

MARRIAGE
14 May 1851
St Martin, Birmingham, Warwickshire

James Harper KIRKHAM, 23, Wine Merchant, Bachelor, Bell Barn Road
Father: Thomas KIRKHAM, Upholsterer
Margaret CLEMENTS, 26, Spinster, Bell Barn Road
Father: William CLEMENTS, Artist

Witnesses:  Isacc SHAW & Amelia SHAW

In 1851 just before James and Margaret's marriage, he and his sister Maria were living together.  She is a seaman's wife and had a son named Thomas who was aged 7.

I think that they all migrated together on the ship Alciope which left Liverpool in Sep 1852 and arrived in Victoria in December with 195 passengers.  There doesn't appear to be a surviving passenger list. 

Someone (probably Harold) looking for Maria in 1854:

WANTED to know tho address of Mrs Maria Clements, who left Liverpool 12 months last September, in the Alciope.  Address D. Scott, office of this paper.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4805519

Harold was looking for her in 1856:

CLEMENTS, MARIA RIDING, who sailed from Liverpool, 1852, in the Alciope, is requested to communicate with Harold Clements at Roberts's Missing Friends Registry, 85 Flinders Street west. Any person giving information of the party advertised will oblige. HC
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/7135344

Margaret KIRKHAM was looking for her in 1865, probably to advise of the death of her brother James in NSW.  By now Maria was going by the surname of MacNAMARA:

MARIA MACNAMARA, formerly Maria Clements, last heard of in 1862 as a patient at the Ballarat Infimary, please communicate with your sister-in-law, Mrs. Margaret Kirkham, Bourke street, Surrey Hills, N. S. VVales. care of Mr. A. Cubltt, Missing Friends Office, Bridge-street, Sydney.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5735120

I think that Harold quite possibly did not come with the others and had not seen Maria since her arrival.  There may be other notices which reveal more information.

Debra 

[sceahlott]

Debra, I am blown away by what you have uncovered.  I have tried looking for Harold in trove but only found a couple of things.  I am in NZ and the family story is that Harold was a remittance man, the family didn't know he and grace met in Australia and had a daughter Margaret who died aged 1.

The fact he was already married when he met Grace might explain a lot - maybe he was looking for Maria so he could marry Grace..... you have given much to think about and some new leads.
thanks so much
Leah