Fenian Joe Pooles siblings

[taramcdsmall]

There was a statement that William left Dublin shortly after joining the Fenians in 1867 / 68.

That's not to say that he wasn't out of the country prior to this too.

There are a LOT of coincidences in these two men, same name, same occupation, same POB, slight variation in age.

Liverpool thrown up intrigued me as we know that William's Dublin wife and father were sent to Liverpool while he was in court informing.

Of course a lot of coincidences don't make it foolproof that they are the same person.

I shall keep routing about 

Tara

[taramcdsmall]

Oh

Were churches mentioned on any of those marriages ?

Tara

[jacko-to]

Hi Tara,

William Lamie
Age:    Full Age
Marriage Date:    17 Jun 1861
Parish:    Liverpool, St Nicholas
Spouse's Name:    Margaret Ann Hands
Father's name:    William Lamie
Spouse Father's Name:    Joseph Hands
Reference Number:    283 NIC/3/58

ame:    William Lamie
Gender:    Male
Marital Status:    Widowed
Age:    40
Birth Date:    1836
Marriage Date:    3 Nov 1876
Marriage Place:    Holy Trinity, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father:    William Lamie
Spouse:    Mary Jane Mcfarlane
FHL Film Number:    1656017
Reference ID:    p 64 no 128

Name:    William Lamie
Gender:    Male
Marriage Date:    23 May 1870
Marriage Place:    St Matthew, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father:    William Lamie
Spouse:    Ellen Sarah Hale
FHL Film Number:    1545929

Kind Regards

Angie

[taramcdsmall]

Hi Angie

Thanks so much for that.

They sound like Catholic churches which would rule out the informer William.

I am working on the presumption, for now, that William's father was called George, so the Liverpool chap doesn't sound like one and the same chap now.

Possibly an uncle or cousin . . .

Thanks Anyway

Back To The Drawing Board 

Tara

[dathai]

Tara
     William Lamie was born 23rd Nov 1845inCrampton Court ,Dame St Father John.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KM7V-BWK
http://comeheretome.com/2011/11/07/3-crampton-court-2/
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-326-1-5-011
He married Sophia Poole in 1869 and had children in Dublin 1871 1879 and 1881

[grizzly1]

William gives evidence in the Scottish Trial  that he left Dublin for Liverpool in 1868 but returned to Dublin after a month.
Its very possible that he may have had Relatives in Liverpool, this would also explain his Father and Sofia heading there when he was arrested.

I realise that Liverpool was a gateway to America, Canada, Australia, due to cheaper and more frequent Ships..But the fact that many of those who were 'MAIN' Players in the Park Killings had problems finding commonwealth countries accepting them makes me think that Lamie wife and Father kept their 'head down' in England along with their William..its possible that William was been kept 'on the hook' for use in Further trials that may have been in the Pipeline, therefore I couldnt see the Authorities letting him stray too far...like a dog on a leash.

[grizzly1]

Today I think I have confirmed through the Purchase of a Marriage and Birth Cert that Sophia and Daughter returned to Dublin by 1901.
Sophia I believe used an Alias, her Daughter Elizabeth married in 1902 on her marriage cert she gives her fathers name as William Lamie, they were also on the 1911 Census were Sophia under her Alias states she is a widow, she also states she is a Widow in 1901.
On the marriage cert it doesnt state that her father William is alive or dead.

While looking up the death register 1883 the year of Joes execution was a terrible year for the Pooles,
I found 4 deaths of young members of the family.

Henry aged 3 died in the first quarter of 1883

Charlotte aged 1 in the 2nd Qtr of 1883

Esther aged 18 also in the 2nd Qtr of 1883

Charles aged 5 died in 4th Qtr of 1883.

Joe was the executed in December 1883..

[Vonnie01]

Hi, wow! All the research you have done is amazing. I'm researching my family tree, I'm a descendent of Eliza L'amie who had a brother called William. I've been looking into the L'amie's today and come across this William L'amie the informer and I think this is Eliza's brother. Eliza's father was a tailor called John and her mother was Mary. They lived in Crampton court in Dublin and were Protestants. I found this baptism certificate this afternoon
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-326-1-5-011

As I'd never heard of William before I thought I'd see if there was anything I could find on him to give me more information on John and Mary I couldn't believe what I was reading.  Then I found this thread and it's been so informative. Eliza had moved to Liverpool years before all this trouble, she got married in Liverpool in 1859 and the last record I've found of her is on her son's birth certificate in 1875. 

What I can't understand is how he was accepted into the Fenian brotherhood if he was a protestant.  He sounds like a weasel, to stab Frederick and to inform on his brother in law, what a sod! It'd be good to know what went on between them all and what Sophia thought of it all.

I was wondering if you have the dates for the newspaper articles?

Thanks

[grizzly1]

Hi Vonnie, great that you have found this post,
Im really interested in finding out what happened to William Lamie after he finished giving evidence,I have shared info with a Historian who has carried out extensive research on the Poole family and I would love to finish the research with knowing what became of William.
  I believe it was Frederick who may have 'stabbed' William or least it may have happened during a scuffle between the 2.
Frederick disapproved of Sophia relationship with William maybe because of the age difference, he was in his late 20s and she was a teen, perhaps 15-16.
Regs William's acceptance into the Fenians religion would not have been a factor as many of Ireland greatest Patriots were not Catholic.
I believe I have Found Sophia and her daughter in Dublin in the 1901 and 1911 census, though Sophia looks to have changed her christian name for security/personal reasons.