Author Topic: Why would London take an orphan from Leicestershire?  (Read 3800 times)

Offline Jomot

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,760
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Why would London take an orphan from Leicestershire?
« on: Friday 21 August 15 00:15 BST (UK) »
I convinced myself months ago that the 1845 burial of 11-year-old orphan Sarah Ann Gibson at St Mary's, Paddington Green couldn't possibly be the same Sarah Ann who was orphaned in the small village of Twyford, Leicestershire just 10 months earlier.  Well having failed to find her anywhere else I finally ordered the death certificate and bingo, its her - but how?

I know that parishes often tried to apprentice their poor in other parishes as that's where they would then gain settlement, but I would have thought that London parishes had more than enough poor of their own without taking them from elsewhere?   

The address on the death certificate was 9 Saint Petersburgh Place, Bayswater, and on the burial it was the Orphan School, Petersburg Place.  Slightly different spellings but clearly the same place. A 1911 photograph shows it to be a 4-story house and in 1851 it housed just 20 orphans aged 9-14, although the neighbours appear relatively wealthy, including solicitors clerks & members of the stock exchange. 

Is it likely that she was simply a parish apprentice within an orphanage, or can anyone come up with a better explanation as to how she ended up there?
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,276
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Why would London take an orphan from Leicestershire?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 21 August 15 03:42 BST (UK) »
I really can't help, but my first thought was might she have had family in London which is why she was sent there? Maybe they were unable to care for her and sent her to the Orphan School?

Was it a fee paying school with her fees being paid by someone? It sounds like a fairly small exclusive establishment, so maybe the title of "Orphan School" gives the wrong impression? If she was really poor would she have just been put in the workhouse?  :-\

Pure speculation and guess work on my part.

It might be worth investigating the school though which might give you some clues.

Offline Kay99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,992
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Why would London take an orphan from Leicestershire?
« Reply #2 on: Friday 21 August 15 06:37 BST (UK) »
If the home was St Matthew's Home for Female Orphans then entrance to the home was by election of the charity's subscribers  and the payment of a fee of £4.  So some society or person must have paid this fee presumably to better the child's chance for finding future employment.  http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/BayswaterStMatthew/

Kay

Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,276
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Why would London take an orphan from Leicestershire?
« Reply #3 on: Friday 21 August 15 06:44 BST (UK) »
The address for St Matthews is Victoria Grove/Ossington St.  :-\

I did look for references to the St Petersburgh Place Orphan School and though I found lots of interesting information (including mention of fees, training etc as per St Matthews) I didn't find an obvious reference to this place. I might be missing something though. The issue with this search is the street name which throws up lots of Russian references.  :-\


Offline Kay99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,992
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Why would London take an orphan from Leicestershire?
« Reply #4 on: Friday 21 August 15 06:53 BST (UK) »
The address for St Matthews is Victoria Grove/Ossington St.  :-\


Oh dear - back to square one  :-\

Offline Ruskie

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,276
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Why would London take an orphan from Leicestershire?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 21 August 15 06:54 BST (UK) »
Related thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=709392.0

In which Jorose says St Matthews address is in St Petersburgh Place, however in Kay's link it is Victoria St. Maybe it was originally at St Petersburgh Place then moved to Victoria St?.

Offline jorose

  • Global Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 9,930
    • View Profile
Re: Why would London take an orphan from Leicestershire?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 21 August 15 16:40 BST (UK) »
Just to confirm: I meant that St. Matthew's, the church, is on St Petersburgh Place:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Matthew%27s,_Bayswater

And Victoria Grove/Ossington St. is very close - perhaps it was moved?

I couldn't figure out where the school was in 1845 - perhaps staff members mentioned in the 1851 census for the school that was on St Petersburgh Place could be traced forward?
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Kay99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,992
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Why would London take an orphan from Leicestershire?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 21 August 15 17:30 BST (UK) »
In 1851 the orphanage on St Petersburgh Place had a Head/Matron/school governess Ann Manger - age 27 born Brailes, Warwickshire and a sub matron/teacher Jane Franklin, Wingfield??. Sussex plus their 19 female orphans.   A lot of responsilbity for just two young women.

In 1861 an Orphanage was at 10 Victoria Grove Terrrace with Matron Jane Franklin age 31 b Brailes, Warwickshire  (presumably the birth places were mixed in Head and Assistant in 1851) plus and assistant and 18 girls.   Looks like the same orphanage :)


Offline Jomot

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,760
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Why would London take an orphan from Leicestershire?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 21 August 15 20:34 BST (UK) »
Thanks for all the comments & ideas so far.

I've been trying to work out whether St Matthews Home for Female Orphans and "the Orphan school" were two different places or whether perhaps the home/school became St Matthews Home for Female Orphans at a later date, but I'm still not sure either way.  I certainly haven't found any references to St Matthews as early as 1845.

If it was fee paying then I really don't know who would have paid it as all records indicate the entire family were as poor as church mice. I tried to see if there was any connection to the military as Sarah Ann's father had been pensioned out in 1818, but I didn't find anything to suggest that was the case.
 
Her death was registered by 'Caroline Marsh present at the death' but I haven't had much luck tracing her forward either  :-\

Sarah Ann had a younger sister, Eliza (my GG Grandmother), who would have been 2 when her father died in 1840, and 6 when her mother died. I'm not sure where she was placed after her parents died but in 1851 she was recorded as sister/visitor at the home of two older sisters in Twyford, and 5 years later gave birth to my G Grandfather in the Melton Mowbray workhouse.

I have a long list of records to trawl through when I eventually manage to get to Leicester so its looking like that may be my only hope of finding out anything - it certainly is a puzzler though. 
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.