Hogg/Bryson

[Rosinish]

The Birth record I have for Catherine Bryson Hogg shows she was born in Monteith Perthshire Scotland in 1784.

I've seen a couple of trees on Ancestry saying Catherine Bryson was born in Monteith/Menteith, Perthshire - have you seen the actual register entry? The only Catherine Bryson I can find on Scotland's People with father Peter around that time was born on 24 Jan 1784 to Peter Bryson of Elphinstone, East Lothian and his wife Jean Notman - the child was baptised on 22 Feb in Tranent, witnesses Archibald Notman and David Crock (maybe Croch).
Ruth

Hi Ruth,

Do you think it's possible they may have possibly been on holiday or such, having the child born in Perthshire but baptised back home 

Annie

[Rosinish]

Mmmm............

A closer look, she would have had to at least have been on 1841 & 1851 census to devise a Perthshire birth   

Annie

[ruthhelen]

Well, after a lot of digging around, I think I've finally found the elusive William Hogg senior 

He died on 16 Dec 1861 in West Linton - which these days is in the Scottish Borders, but was formerly in Peebleshire - it's practically on the border of Midlothian, only about 15 miles from Edinburgh city centre. William was 79 years old, listed as a joiner on the death registration, and widower of Catherine Bryson He was living with his sister, Ann Ramage (nee Hogg) and her husband Alexander Ramage in West Linton - they all appear together in the 1861 census in West Linton.

William Hogg was born on 20 Sep 1782 in Penicuik, Midlothian (which is about 8 miles north of West Linton) to John Hogg - a miller, according to William's death record - and Anne Porteous. I've found two other children for John and Anne so far, both born in West Linton - John born around 1789 and Ann, already mentioned, around 1800. Ann Hogg married Alexander Ramage in West Linton in 1822 - I've found two children for them so far.

So... this means that the 1851 census entry that I found for William Hogg and his daughter Jane/Jean (and the off-spring of dubious parentage...) is correct, as that William Hogg's birth place was noted as Penicuik (albeit spelled very phonetically  ) - they were in Uphall, Midlothian - still need to work out who the two grand-children actually were - not documentary trace of them as yet...

It also means that all those trees on Ancestry who have Catherine Bryson down as dying in 1884 are probably wrong - William was a widower by the time of the 1851 census.

Phew... 

Added: Oh, and as a final clue that this probably is the correct William Hogg - William Hogg junior (he who married Margaret Minto Thompson) named one of his children James Porteous Hogg...

[loobylooayr]

Well done Ruthhelen - you've certainly put a lot of effort into the search.

I wonder if the couple on the 1841 Census at Leith was William and Catherine ? Ages don't quite match the 1782 & 1784 years of birth. But then again the 1841 Census is never reliable for ages!

Looby

[loobylooayr]

Just noticed ruthhelen that William Hogg snr. was a Joiner on the death cert you found.
That ties in too with the occupation of the Leith William Hogg on the 1841 - so that looks like it could be the couple together . So Catherine must have died between 1841 /1851.
I can't find William with Jean on the 1851 (Freecen) - what are her children called please??
Once again great work Ruthhelen 

Looby 

[ruthhelen]

I wonder if the couple on the 1841 Census at Leith was William and Catherine ? Ages don't quite match the 1782 & 1784 years of birth. But then again the 1841 Census is never reliable for ages!

It seems likely - they're certainly the best (in fact only!) possible match I've come across. On daughter Catherine's wedding registration in 1841, William Hogg is noted as being from Newhaven - 'a builder there...'. And Catherine Bryson was certainly born 'outside the census county' - Penicuik was probably regarded as being outside the census county too...

[ruthhelen]

I can't find William with Jean on the 1851 (Freecen) - what are her children called please??

No - that's really odd isn't it? I couldn't find them on FreeCen either - it was coming up on Ancestry, I couldn't get it on FreeCen at all, even with every spelling variation I could think of  I pulled the record off SP in the end...

One child is William H Rankine or Rankins - Ancestry has Rankins and SP has Rankine. It's difficult to tell from the actual census document - it looks more like Rankine. Anyway, he is aged 5, born abt 1846 in Uphall, West Lothian. Jane/Jean Hogg is identified as the mother in the Ancestry transcription, but I always take that with a pinch of salt...

The second child appears to be John M Knight, aged 8 months, according to Ancestry - it's impossible to be sure from the record, but it's certainly in months, rather than years. Again born Uphall.

It looks like Jane/Jean Hogg is noted as married from the record - but if she is, she's not recorded using her married name - but that's not that unusual if the husband has 'gone away'... 

[ruthhelen]

Interestingly, I also came across an 1841 census entry for a Jean Hogg in Lasswade, aged 20, female servant. On Ancestry, the family she was living with was transcribed as Rackham - and I wondered if you could possibly make 'Rankine' from that... but FreeCen has them transcribed as Buckham  And the only man in the house was the 70 year old father But still - there may be a son somewhere...

[loobylooayr]

There is a 15year old Jean Hogg , female servant, born outside the county at Bathgate, West Lothian on the 1841.
I had looked at her earlier as a potential sister of William Hogg jnr. She is living with a family called Brown. Head of household James Brown is a teacher.

Looby