New Zealand History

[Lucy2]

Has it actually been shown that Caecilia Margaret SWAIN f.LINDHOLD is the mother of Ruby May HODGES b.SWAIN. It seems as though a lot of work is being done in anticipation of the fact but I'm just wondering where is the proof :-)

Regards
Beg

Hi maddys52

Just a bit puzzled as as to why you've altered Beg's quote and added the names "Ruby May HODGES".   

I think Ruby's birth needs to be established with more than just a reference on an existing tree. 

The references actually came from the two trees I mentioned, but there are numerous other trees which give information on Ruby Mary BURKE / SWAIN.

Please also refer to my Reply # 30 which gives details from the entry in the New South Wales Death Index regarding Ruby Mary BURKE.   I have asked a question concerning the names of her parents as shown on that index.   No reply received to date.

"Tigerprawn's" initial enquiry mentions that she is stuck with finding information for her great-grandparents, Cecilia Margaret and Frederick SWAIN.   One would assume that as she has their names (and some additional information about them), that the usual process of working backwards in family history, has been followed.   

Certainly it would be helpful to the cause if we knew if references to Ruby Mary SWAIN (BURKE) came purely from oral history ... or whether there is "official" documentation to support the findings. 

   ~  Lu

[Beg Clonrode...]

Hi maddys52

Just a bit puzzled as as to why you've altered Beg's quote and added the names "Ruby May HODGES".   

Mea culpa :-)

I too read Maddy's reply and wondered why the names were wrong. Checked the reply that she had quoted and saw that I had written the wrong name. Proof positive, if needed, that there's no cure for stupid...

I amended my original reply but obviously couldn't do the same to Maddy's quoted reply.

---

There's really only two births that I could find in Southland which match the 21 Nov 1891 birthdate, don't appear later in BDM NZ Marriages and don't have younger siblings.

1891/16420 - HOWARD, Bridget - mother: Elizabeth  father: Thomas
1891/16244 - LUSCOMBE, Clarice Francis - mother: Frances  father: Edwin

Neither of the mother's maiden names, DOOGAN and LAWRENCE respectively, have popped up previously but I'll mention them.

I'm thinking either 21 Nov 1891 is the wrong birthdate or the birth went unregistered.

Ruby not being their natural daughter is an obvious possibility but short of words to that effect in their divorce file, or an mtDNA test, I can't think of a way to prove/disprove it.

Regards
Beg

[maddys52]

Hi maddys52

Just a bit puzzled as as to why you've altered Beg's quote and added the names "Ruby May HODGES".   

Mea culpa :-)

I too read Maddy's reply and wondered why the names were wrong. Checked the reply that she had quoted and saw that I had written the wrong name. Proof positive, if needed, that there's no cure for stupid...

I amended my original reply but obviously couldn't do the same to Maddy's quoted reply.

---

Thanks Beg for sorting that out - thought I was going bonkers!

The main reason I'm concerned about Ruby Mary SWAIN's parentage is that divorce record which says Frederick and Cecilia Margaret were childless.

Tigerprawn, have you got the NSW marriage certificate for Henry BURKE and Ruby SWAIN? That should say who her parents were, her place of birth and age and father's profession. I had a look on Trove, but there were no accounts of the marriage that I could see.

cheers,
M

[maddys52]

Tigerprawn, I forgot to add that are a few interesting articles about Hercules Henry BURKE on Trove, in case you haven't seen them. Simply put his name (in inverted commas) into the search at http://trove.nla.gov.au

[tigerprawn]

I asked my aunty about the family bible I had heard of. It belonged to Ruby Mary and contains the dates of her mother and husband's deaths.

Cecilia Margaret 28 Jan 1946
Frederick Swain 8 Apr 1956

I don't have any other documentation linking Cecilie and Ruby to one another. At the moment it is purely what I have been told. Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to talk to my grandmother (Ruby Mary's daughter) before she passed away last year.

[tigerprawn]

I asked my aunty about the family bible I had heard of. It belonged to Ruby Mary and contains the dates of her mother and husband's deaths.

Cecilia Margaret 28 Jan 1946
Frederick Swain 8 Apr 1956

I don't have any other documentation linking Cecilie and Ruby to one another. At the moment it is purely what I have been told. Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to talk to my grandmother (Ruby Mary's daughter) before she passed away last year.

"Frederick Swain" should have been Hercules Henry Burke as it was her husband's death date and not her father's.

[Beg Clonrode...]

Caecilie Margarethe LINDHOLD
Died:  28 January 1946 - 76 years
of (or at)  Walcha Road, NSW

[Haven't yet found this death in NSW Index. ]

BDM NSW

6319/1946 - Margaret Cecilia JOHNSON
Father: Peter THOMSON
Mother: Joanna
Registration District: Walcha
Date of death: 28 Jan 1946

Regards
Beg

[Lucy2]

Looks good Beg  ... well done. 

[Beg Clonrode...]

? ? ?

http://headstonephotos.com.au/inscription?id=1521419

Regards
Beg