Author Topic: Portugal, Lisbon - Marie Riccarrina  (Read 1102 times)

Offline Reeni1

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Portugal, Lisbon - Marie Riccarrina
« on: Sunday 26 July 15 18:46 BST (UK) »
Hi

Looking for guidance and/or support to trace Portugese ancestor.  Marie Riccarrina, born around 1790.  It is 1861 Scotland census that suggsts she born in Sielegart, Lisbon Portugal.  By 1816 she is in London marrying an Italian soldier, before 'marrying' my 5th great grandfather William Bradley.  William and Marie (a) went to Ireland before moving to Scotland.  Be interested to hear any clues about how she might have got to UK from Portugal.  And of course be great to find her birth/baptismal record.

Cheers
Reeni
 :)

Offline garstonite

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Re: Portugal, Lisbon - Marie Riccarrina
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 26 July 15 22:18 BST (UK) »
Hiya Reeni - could you post the name of the Italian soldier she married ??...I can't find any records for that surname ...maybe it is spelt slightly differently ??
What year did she marry William Bradley ?

could the Italian name be Pentony ?
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline garstonite

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Re: Portugal, Lisbon - Marie Riccarrina
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 26 July 15 22:50 BST (UK) »
Do you know a Rose Tillotson ??...she has a photo of Mary Riccarrina - I presume this is your Marie Riccarrina
copied and pasted this
Immagini. Foto: Mary Riccarrina (2). Categoria: Documento. Allegato a: Leonardo Pranzo (nato 1780). Storie utente personale. Storie e ricordi. Leggi storia  ...

Mary Riccarrina (2) (Document). Transcription: Marriages solemized in the Parish of St Martins in the fields in the county of Middlesex in the year 1816Leonardo  .
..............................................................................................
with that info I then found the marriage - her surname was Riccardina .....
and she married Leanardo Pranzo on 6th May 1816
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJYL-BW5

need the year of the second marriage

it looks like only 1 c in Ricardina - this isn't your Marie , but it is possible this is how your Marie spelt her name in Portugal
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F28D-WN5

so - just my opinion - but I think her birth name would be Maria Ricardina
again - no good to you - but under Ricardina there are family trees
http://en.geneanet.org/search/?name=ricardina&ressource=arbre

at least we have made a little progress...I hope ....
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline Reeni1

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Re: Portugal, Lisbon - Marie Riccarrina
« Reply #3 on: Monday 27 July 15 17:58 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the reply, I will follow up on those connections.

Yes Marie married Leonardo Pranzo in 1816.  Not sure if Leonardo Pranzo died which led to Marie being with William - I haven't found a death certificate for Leonardo.

In each document I have found, her surname is spelt slightly different (sons marriage certificate; Marie's death certificate).  I have been unable to find a marriage document for Marie and William.  I am not convinced that they ever got married.  Their 1st son Thomas is noted as being born in London on census records and believe registered baptised on 6th Dec 1818 in Chelsea St Luke, London. 
Unfortunately her parents are not recorded anywhere.  Hoped if I could find access to Portugese records I might get further.
Cheers
Reeni


Offline jorose

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Re: Portugal, Lisbon - Marie Riccarrina
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 29 July 15 12:21 BST (UK) »
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8846580
 - Leonardo was in the British Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Sicilian_Regiment ).  Was William also a soldier? Do you have a full copy (not just index) of the 1818 baptism?

Can you show us the record that states she was born "Sielegart"?

There are some (image sets not indexed) church records for Portugal on familysearch but not accessible to the general public, unfortunately.  You would definitely need to figure out more exactly where she came from before you started to tackle those sorts of records.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Reeni1

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Re: Portugal, Lisbon - Marie Riccarrina
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 29 July 15 20:14 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Leonardo and Marie - transcript from marriage
Marriages solemized in the Parish of St Martins in the fields in the county of Middlesex in the year 1816 Leonardo Pranzo and Mary Riccarrina both of this parish were married in this church by Banns this 6th day of May in the year one thousand eight hundred and sixteen By me John Tillotson Curate This marriage was solemized between us - the mark X Leonardo Pranzo; the mark Mary Riccarrina In the presence of Janet Thomas [ ] Taylor No 545

Leonardo was in 31st Regiment, Scicilian Regiment in 1807; Sergeant Sicilian Foot in 1814; he was discharged on medical grounds for blindness.  Leornardo was five feet eight inches, black hair and grey eyes.  He was 9 years younger than William.

William Bradley was also a soldier; who had served for a long time.  He was discharged in 1817 as a Chelsea Pensioner.  Given Leonardo's medical discharge in London I think this is the connection between the men other than their relationship with Marie.

Transcript from William's records.
His Majesty's Sixty-Fourth Regt of Foot
These are certify
1st. that William Bradley born in the Parish of Dungiven in or near the Town of Dungiven in the County of Derry was enlisted for the aforesaid Regiment at Belfast in the County of Antrim on the 4th Day of February 1800 at the age of Twenty four years for unlimited service.
2nd. That he hath served in the Army for the space of seventeen years and 11,233 days, after the age of eighteen, accordeing to the subjoined
Statement of Service
in what corps - 64 foot
Period of service - 4 Feby 1800 - 24 Sept 1817
Private - 17 years 233 days
Total service - 17 years 233 days
In East or West Indies, included in the afore going total - 12 years 70 days
3rd. That in consequence of a Pulmonia complaint and having worn out
4th. That he is not, to my knowledge incapacitated by the Sentence of a General Court Marial from receiving Pension.
5th That his General Conduct as a Soldier has been Good
6th That he has received all just Demands of Pay, Clothing, &c, from his Entry into the Service to the date of the Discharge, as appears by his Receipt underneath.
7th. I William Bradley do hereby acknowledge that I have received all my Clothing, Pay, Arrears of Pay, and all just Demands whatsoever, from the time of my Entry into the Service to this date of the Discharge.
Witness by J [ ] Capt
8th To prevent any imprper use being made of this Discharge, by its falling into other Hands, the following is a Description of the said William Bradley. He is about forty five years of age, is five feet six inches in height, fair, blue eyes, fair complexion; and by Trade or Occupation a Weaver,

The baptismal record I am associated with Thomas transcription:
Thomas William, Son of; William & Mary; Bradley; Turks Row; Soldier - there is no reference on who conducted the ceremony.

I don't have record for Scotland 1861 census downloaded; it is on ancestry - she is recorded as Mary Brodelty (transcription error for Bradley); birth about 1801; the address and her daughter's details verify the match is correct.  William had passed away 4 years before.

Hope all this help.
Reeni