Place Names and the Family Grieves

[Kay99]

Given the Jarrow birthplace of Thomas in 1901 - I am wondering about this family with father James who becomes a Mariner and brother James who is also a Forgeman

In 1851 living in South Shields by Jarrow Hall

James Grieves     45 Labour  Jedburgh?? - (Scotland)    
Hannah Grieves 43 South Shields, Durham
Mary A Grieves    16 South Shields, Durham    
James Grieves 12  North Shields
Thomas Grieves 10 North Shields
Elizabeth Grieves 7 Preston, Durham
William D    Grieves 4 Jarrow, Durham
Adam Grieves     1    
HO107 Piece 2400 Folio 304 Page    25

By 1861 Thomas had left home (or possibly died)- Father James was a widower - Labourer (b Roxbrough Scotland) and brother James was a Forgeman  - Living in Westoe South Shields
RG 9 Piece 3791 Folio 56 Page 26 

1871 Father James Grieves is living in Westoe, Jarrow age 64 born Scotland and this time listed as a mariner with son Adam who is a puddler in the Iron Works
RG10 Piece 5035 Folio 27 Page 48

Kay

[Millmoor]

The family found by Kay may well be worth pursuing. (On Ancy in 1851 the name has been transcribed as Griener).

A public tree for James Grieves b 1839 South Shields on ancy. names his parents as James Grieves and Hannah Simpson but interestingly has his marriage in Christ Church, Poplar 17 Aug 1862. The parish record gives his occupation as forgeman and his father's as sailor. James then returns to the north east. In the 1881 census he has a son James born London 1864.

There is a marriage for James Grieves and Hannah Simpson in Jarrow 4 June 1832. (It is image 87 in the Jarrow dataset in the Diocese of Durham Bishop's Transcripts).

William

[Elamcc]

thank you so much guys. I am definitely going to look into the James & Hannah family for him.
I did look at the 1911 census for Thomas and it has him Born 1841 Newcastle. Married. Hammerman/Blacksmith. It says he is a Lodger with the family he is with but it is actually his daughter and son-in-laws family Alice and Albert Jones.
I was looking at google maps and Jarrow and South Shields are so close together. and maybe it is just me here in Australia having a different idea on distances but Newcastle seems very close too.
Kay if Thomas was born at sea - how would I look into that? 
I had a look at some of the public trees with James (sibling) having parents James and Hannah. Weird that on all of them, they have only William, James and Adam as the children despite it clearly having Thomas, Mary A, and Elizabeth on the census's as well.
I also found on the 1871 Census of Thomas and Susan and family that the middle name of one of the children (John) is Millingen. That sounds like a surname to me. But I haven't been able to find anything to link that name.
Key you are amazing finding Hannah and James's marriage - I would never have found that!

[Kay99]

William - Good find for the brother James's marriage in Poplar with his father named as James - sailor. 

Elamcc - the reason most trees don't have all James and Hannah's children on them is the mistrancription on their surname on Anc as Griener in 1851 -  I found the family originally in 1861 when Thomas had left the family but was struck by James being a Forgeman and his father's name.     I only found them on another site in 1851 (FindMyPast) and checking the Anc trees they have not referred to this census
My suggestion that Thomas may have been born at sea was only a thought based on his reference to headlands on the Northumberland coast and his father's occupation and he still may have been registered.   There are a couple options on FreeBMD including a Thomas Henry in South Shields in 1842.   Will try and find them in 1841

Kay

Edit - I think they may have been at sea in 1841 but did find a daughters baptism at St Hilda South Shields - Margaret Grieves 9 June 1834 Parents James and Hannah Grieves - James listed as a mariner (St Hilda dataset image 64 in the Diocese of Durham Bishop's Transcripts)

[Millmoor]

There is an excellent map collection on the National Library of Scotland site. This includes 19th century English 6 inch maps. I note that there is a Whitehill Point in North Shields ( on one early map it does look like it is Whitchill Point) on the River Tyne opposite South Shields. Am I pushing it to suggest that this could be the Wittow Point /Wechley Point given in the 1871 and 1891 census?

Hope you do better than me, Kay in finding them in 1841!

William

[Kay99]

I don't think so unfortunately  - I think they could be at sea 

Kay

[chempat]

This map:

http://maps.nls.uk/view/102346464

[stanmapstone]

There are some houses at Whitehill Point called "Quality Row" http://maps.nls.uk/view/102346464#zoom=5&lat=682&lon=12018&layers=BT

Stan

[WolfieSmith]

1841 census, Murton Row, Chirton, Tynemouth,

James Grives, 30, Ag Lab, b. Scotland,
Hannah, 25, N,
Margaret, 7, N,
James, 2, N,
Thomas, 11 weeks, Y,
HO107/825/1/14/20

Down as Goives on you know what.

Theres a Thomas Grieve birth registered in Tynemouth, jun qtr 1841.

Alan.