Irish traveller surnames

[mixbag]

My grandmother Ivy Edith Dalton (born Crayford Kent; 1904 - 1988) always maintained that she was related to Romany gypsies including "Gypsy Rose Lea".  She had visions and premonitions as did my mother and me and my sisters.  Her mother was Louisa Crockford  and her grandmother was called Ellen Donavin (1846 - 1917).  I wondered if Ellen might be Irish and a Romany?

Possible, but Romany gypsies didn't start going to Ireland until the early 1900's. However, as a lot of Irish both Settled and Pavee came to the UK for work in the industrial revolution, as evidenced from my own research, then its possible that the Romany side with the Irish name began in England.
 

[aghadowey]

Possible, but Romany gypsies didn't start going to Ireland until the early 1900's. However, as a lot of Irish both Settled and Pavee came to the UK for work in the industrial revolution, as evidenced from my own research, then its possible that the Romany side with the Irish name began in England.

Ireland was part of the U.K.

[mixbag]

So I said UK, when I later did say England. England is a country distinct and separate from Ireland, both of which formed what is known as the UK.

In the grand scheme of things, I am sure people take that as was meant.

[aghadowey]

So I said UK, when I later did say England. England is a country distinct and separate from Ireland, both of which formed what is known as the UK.

In the grand scheme of things, I am sure people take that as was meant.

I think your reply has been changed slight from when I originally read it but Ireland being part of the U.K. does make a difference when trying to trace ancestors.

[mixbag]

I changed it because you may have thought it was offensive and again I am sure people reading this will know that Ireland was a part of the UK.

However when it comes to tracing ancestors it makes little difference, given that records were destroyed in the uprising, which occurred after the original earlier destruction of records by the English. In other words they would still have been destroyed regardless.

Whenever you look at the past, land borders should be ignored anyhow, given that people tended to move around even as they do now, not caring about borders. However sea boundaries are the only borders that did matter, as they presented a different factor.

As far as the question regarding the Romany Gypsies being in Ireland during the 1800's, that didn't happen because why would Romany gypsies go to a country that was in the grips of starvation for many years with the resultant exodus of 40% of its population fleeing to England and the northern American continent, for a better life.

[Puffin81]

What is this book of bob? 

Just wondering in oneil and Keenan are Irish traveler names?

[Steve G]

Puffin; O'Neil 1850 till present 

Keenan? 1891, in Durham. No record of exactly what type of Gypsy we're dealing with there. Could easily have been a Pav.


What is " The Book of Bob "  It's out of print now. My own copy's virtually a pile of loose pages ~ having long since fallen apart from constant leafing. Clicky.

[Puffin81]

Puffin; O'Neil 1850 till present 

Keenan? 1891, in Durham. No record of exactly what type of Gypsy we're dealing with there. Could easily have been a Pav.


What is " The Book of Bob "  It's out of print now. My own copy's virtually a pile of loose pages ~ having long since fallen apart from constant leafing. Clicky.

Pav?

When you say 1850 to present, is that when they became travelers? How do you become a traveller?  I have a lot to learn

My Keenan’s and O’Neil’s had left Ireland mid 1800s.

[Steve G]

A Pav (Pavee) is an Irish Gypsy.

How does one 'become' a Gypsy / Traveler? Depends on ones personal definition. Could vary from being directly descended from people who came out of India, a very long time ago.

Or, one could ~ last I knew ~ for example; Claim 'Gypsyship Under Statute'. There being a UK statute which defines what a Gypsy is. Basically, one who lives a normally nomadic existence and earns their living that way.

Can of worms there .....