Author Topic: The mysterious William Douthwaite  (Read 32405 times)

Offline chr1st1an

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 298
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: The mysterious William
« Reply #81 on: Friday 26 June 15 11:56 BST (UK) »
You are wrongly supposing that he stayed in Westmorland until his wife Maggie Jane died in 1945.
I suppose if the marriage was not consummated they would annul the marriage shortly after 1897 (the date of the wedding). And that "leaves" William 50 years (not 2) to do whatever he did.

I agree with dobfarm that £34.000 is not a fortune by today's standards. Maybe it was above the average; maybe not. In any case that wasn't the point of this research.

And regarding the certificates, my relative has two of them and she has promised to send them to me.  ;)

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 44,044
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: The mysterious William
« Reply #82 on: Friday 26 June 15 12:12 BST (UK) »

I suppose if the marriage was not consummated they would annul the marriage shortly after 1897 (the date of the wedding). And that "leaves" William 50 years (not 2) to do whatever he did.


They were still together on the last available online census.  Her probate states 'wife of William'   ::)
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline dobfarm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,907
  • Scarcliffe village Derbyshire
    • View Profile
Re: The mysterious William
« Reply #83 on: Friday 26 June 15 15:46 BST (UK) »
I'll, check the electoral register 1945 (If they did any in wartime ?) in Lancaster sometime this year ( I go to the lake district in summer boating) in Westmorland and Barnsley/Wakefield archives to see if two William's pop up or not. The Westmorland William a man of means, seems yours but I'm iffy about the Barnsley Shafton as same William -his death being 1952 seems an ordinary working man or local small businessman (Shopkeeper type) from the area who saved a modest bob or two.


It is a point ? as you keep pushing your William owned properties and value of his estate £1360 at death does not support it in 1952 as far to low to own properties plus having no headstone is a give away to his wealth. Adminstration means creditors hacking at his estate of £1360 gross

I would also add, I think this William rented the house 28 Engine lane, Shafton as its value today is £361,795 divide 25 to 1 = the house value 1952 of £14,471 way over £1360 what that William left.

 http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/28-engine-lane/shafton/barnsley/s72-8re/20449813
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline dobfarm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,907
  • Scarcliffe village Derbyshire
    • View Profile
Re: The mysterious William
« Reply #84 on: Friday 26 June 15 18:25 BST (UK) »
WILL 1903 Death 1902 aged 70 Hemsworth District

A possible Father of a William
Thomas Douthwaite, of Ackworth Yorkshire, died 17th Dec 1902 Probate Wakefield 29th Jan 1903 to William Douthwaite corn miller and others. Estate value £1261


https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar#calendar




From google search

The Rector of Plumstead in 1853 was a William Ackworth, whose ancestors, there can ...... There is a Church there, and priest ; one mill, of sixteen pence. ...... Herbert J. Evans 1877, William Cammage 1878, William Douthwaite 1867, Ellen ..... he went to Pontefract to buy corn, he had to place his hand in the farmer's sack, ...

http://archive.org/stream/parochialhistor00saywgoog/parochialhistor00saywgoog_djvu.txt
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth


Offline dobfarm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,907
  • Scarcliffe village Derbyshire
    • View Profile
Re: The mysterious William
« Reply #85 on: Sunday 28 June 15 12:48 BST (UK) »
Composite time line of Mary Alice for other researches of this family based on documentation of fact



Mary Alice Redern birth  3rd qtr 1887 Congleton Staffordshire


Joseph Lawton married Mary Alice Redfern 1908 Wolstanton Staffordshire 3rd qtr 1908 Silverdale, St Luke church

Son Lewis S Lawton birth 3rd qtr 1919 Hemsworth  -  mothers maiden name Redfern

Joseph Lawton age 52 death  1st qtr 1939 Hemsworth

Joseph Lawton Aministration of Lewclif bungalow, Engine lane, Shafton
to Mary Alice Lawton widow 1939


Mrs Mary Alice Lawton widow married William Dothwaite  3rd qtr 1947 Hemsworth

William Duthwaite death 1952 Engine lane Shafton buried Felirk Church yard S-126

William Douthwaite Adminstration 1953 of 28 Engine lane Shafton Yorshire
to Mary Alice Duthwaite widow
 

Mary Alice Douthwaite of Easton, Blackminster, Evesham death 1966 Admin 1967
to Lewis Sam Lawton

( Easton, Blackminster, Evesham WR11 7TD a 4 bedroomed bungalow in the old Station Railway yard as was the Bungalow in 28, Engine Lane Shafton (Nr Barnsley) old railway Station {'Grimethorpe Halt'] )
~~~~~~~~--------------

Likely William's first wife

Margaret Douthwaite  death 1923 aged 56 (est born 1867 ) Barnsley district which also covers Shafton. (Unless she died a spinster ? born Douthwaite)

One Willaim Douthwaite married West Derby 1886 (Just possible if he was born 1867/8) 2 possible wife's Margaret Hale and Margaret Shields in GRO index

In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline chr1st1an

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 298
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: The mysterious William
« Reply #86 on: Monday 29 June 15 17:19 BST (UK) »
Most likely William's first wife:

Maggie Jane Hindson marriage to William Douthwaite in W. WARD, DEC 1897.

They had no children.

Maggie Jane Douthwaite died WESTMORLAND N., MAR 1945 (aged 77), which matches her birthdate:
Maggie Jane Hindson born at KENDAL, MAR 1868.

In her will:
"MAGGIE JANE DOUTHWAITE of Park View, Clifton, Westmorland (wife of William Douthwaite) died 1 January 1945. Probate Carlisle 14 April to Norman Kirkpatrick post office overseer and Nathan Henry Arnison solicitor. Effects: £1824 6s. 5d."

Norman Kirkpatrick died Newcastle upon Tyne SEP 1954 (45) and his will shows £8388 left to Joseph Hindson Kirkpatrick (among others).

I guess Maggie and William must have been separated for years...

Offline dobfarm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,907
  • Scarcliffe village Derbyshire
    • View Profile
Re: The mysterious William
« Reply #87 on: Monday 29 June 15 17:30 BST (UK) »
There is another spelling of Douthwaite- DoWthwaite and a whole new ball game.
In my opinion the marriage residence is not always the place of birth. Never forget Workhouse and overseers accounts records of birth

Offline chr1st1an

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 298
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: The mysterious William
« Reply #88 on: Monday 29 June 15 17:33 BST (UK) »
If you check the death registry and the will, you'll see it's spelt Douthwaite.

Don't look for another William...
Mary Alice Douthwaite was my great grandmother and she positively lived in 28 Engine Lane, Shafton.

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 44,044
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: The mysterious William
« Reply #89 on: Monday 29 June 15 17:42 BST (UK) »

In her will:
"MAGGIE JANE DOUTHWAITE of Park View, Clifton, Westmorland (wife of William Douthwaite) died 1 January 1945. Probate Carlisle 14 April to Norman Kirkpatrick post office overseer and Nathan Henry Arnison solicitor. Effects: £1824 6s. 5d."


That is not her will but a copy of the entry in the probate calendar - Norman Kirkpatrick & Nathan Arnison administered the estate and were not necessarily beneficiaries
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar#calendar
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk