Denyer Family Hove Sussex

[gwalkden]

So in the 1901 census Mary Jane and Frederick were visiting a household when the census-taker was there?

Yes marriage in 1897 would be right as my Grandfather was born in 1894 and she was single then.  WHEW!  Such a web to unravel!

Looking forward to my visit in October and hopefully find some family!

[Jebber]

If you have a photo of your great grandmother outside Wish Cottage, there must be a connection between the two families, you will have to go backwards to look for a link.

Here is the reference for Alfred's birth certificate.

Births Jun 1864   
DENYER    Alfred Jupp        Chichester    2b   321

It is very late and I am off to bed now, so Good night.

[gwalkden]

Thank you so much again for your help.  It certainly is NOT an easy chore finding family is it!  Everyone in my British Home Child group who has used RootsChat is very impressed with your work.  Our President KAren Mahoney is a moderator. If I have any more questions, I will certainly ask!  Thanks!

I will take the picture of my gr-grandmother with me to England. Maybe someone will know her. 

[lizdb]

You are probably best continuing your research to establish some facts. 
We are talking a long time ago, so I doubt anyone in Hove will know your grandmother. If anyone knew of the Denyer families, I doubt they would have known them well enough, nor the information been passed down the generations accurately enough, for them to distinguish between the two Alfred Denyers we have found.

Just to summarize.

Alfred Jupp Denyer married Mary Jane Smith 1897. She already had a child Frederick Smith before this marriage.
In 1901 she , with 7 yr old Frederick, is visiting the Andrews family, whilst her husband is in Cold Waltham, he is a groom/horse keeper.   She is born Cold Waltham, son bn London.
By 1911, Frederick has been sent away. Alfred and Mary Jane in Horsham * see next post - no they aren't in Horsham!.

Meanwhile -
An Alfred Denyer married Mary Walder in 1895. They had children Mary Victoria Walder, Nathan Thomas Alfred and Edward Charles, and a couple of others that died.
In 1901 they are in Portslade
In 1911 at Wish Cottage.

Assuming there is a connection between the families, as you say Frederick had a photo of his mum Mary outside Wish Cottage with Victoria, it must presumably be via the Denyer link.
i.e the Alfred Jupp that Mary married must be linked to the Alfred that lived in Wish Cottage.

Are you sure the photo was of his Mum, and not of the Mary (nee Walder) who lived there?

Presmuably not brothers, both being Alfreds. So as someone has already said, you will need to delve deeper.

[lizdb]

No - my summary is still incorrect!

The Hosrsham Alfred Denyer is Not the same one as married Mary Jane Smith!
Because he is there is 1901, same address in Horsham as 10 years later, with wife, called just Jane on this occasion, and two children. That all ties up with 10 years later.

But we know "our" one is in Cold Waltham, and "our" Mary Jane with young Fredk is visiting the Andrews.

So still haven't located ours in 1911

[gwalkden]

Wow .... and the plot thickens!  When my Grandfather went overseas in the first World War he brought back a picture of his  Mother that someone gave him.  It hung in their dining room and I always thought she was the ugliest person I had ever seen!  ha!ha! ... I emailed the Hove archives as that is where I had traced them to and they sent me a picture of an ugly woman in front of Wish Cottage who looked like the lady in the picture that my Grandparents had.  She was holding a kitten and Victoria was there holding another kitten (she wasn't ugly!)  ha! ha!

So yes, the timeline is correct so far until my Grandfather was sent to Barnardos in 1906.  I went on to the War Graves site and found Nathan Thomas Alfred Denyer (N.T.A. Denyer) and it read "Son of Alfred and Mary Jane Denyer wish Cottage" so that is where I presumed he was my Grandfather's half brother. 

Oh boy!  Always more questions than answers isn't it!  I was just hoping that a descendant or two maybe lived in Hove.

I re-read the Barnardo intake papers last night and according to them, his father was a George Greenfield but sounds like he didn't stick around so my gr-grandmother definitely was an unwed mother.

This one is a real challenge isn't it!  Who am I     ha! ha!

[Jebber]

What you need is your grandfather's birth certificate, finding Frederick William SMITH is not particularly easy without a more precise birth place. You said he was born in Petworth workhouse London,  where did you get the information because it is a contradiction of terms, they are different places, he was either born in Petworth workhouse which is in Sussex OR London as stated in the 1901 census.

There are at least five Frederick Williams born in the London area at the right time.

[gwalkden]

I need to look at the Barnardo paper again.  I know he was born in a workhouse  according to Barnardos but I may have got Petworth in my brain. You see, he told everyone he was born in Petworth .. but Barnardos says he was born in London in a workhouse.  I think it is Barnardo that is sending me down the wrong road!   Yes, I know Smith is a hard one to track down.  My maiden name was Smith (he is my paternal Grandfather) ...   His attestation papers say he was born in Petworth but Barnardos contradict ...  Just checked the Barnaro report ..e was born in St Pancras Workhouse London.  The Petworth connection comes in as apparently they spent time in the Petworth Union.

[Jebber]

That is a help.

His mother remained apart from her husband, you need to look for a 29 year old Charles GALE in Chichester in 1911 to find her as his housekeeper.