Digital GRO Records

[DavidG02]

How soon?

http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/news/digital-bmd-certificates-discussed-house-lords

Read an article on the possibility of the GRO( General Registry Office) making records available for digital downloads in the same way ScotlandsPeople does. But when?

 Living in Australia I would prefer to be able to access these records online...as would others in Australia. While I did send away for a copy of a marriage certificate and was happy with the result, the 5 week delay left me hesitant to try again.

I think I can speak on behalf of many Aussies and I assume New Zealanders and Canadians and Americans , that the uptake in business for the GRO would far outweigh any costs in setting this up

I should congratulate Baroness Scott for driving this as well as those un-named , and also Guy Etchells for his work.

Guy, what is your opinion on how long this will take?

[andycand]

Hi

I wouldn't hold my breath. My understanding is that the law change allows for certificates to be issued other than as a certified copy but it doesn't mean that there will be a significant change, at least not in the near future. To set up a system similar to Scotland would cost millions of pounds.

Andy

[smudwhisk]

It wouldn't surprise me that any service is more likely to be like the recently launched Probate Service scan on demand, so you would still have to wait for them to be made available rather than something like Scotlands People which, as Andy says, would cost a small fortune to set up.  I doubt somehow there will be much movement on this for a while.

[DavidG02]

The link did say ' early to mid 2015' - and yes I am aware of pollyspeak. 

But thank you for your responses. I prefer to take the positive 

[smudwhisk]

The link did say ' early to mid 2015' - and yes I am aware of pollyspeak. 

The early to mid 2015 you refer to relates, as indicated in the article, to the reform becoming law.  Nowhere does it say that was when the scheme would be setup.  It has become law but as has been mentioned on RC and other sites previously, when such a scheme would be setup is still up in the air.

But thank you for your responses. I prefer to take the positive 

Its one thing being positive, its something else I'm afraid being realistic. 

I hope the pessimistic view is disproven but I somehow doubt that it will be, especially given the level of budget cuts allegedly still being contemplated by the new govenment.  There would probably be a bit of an uproar if a considerable amount of money was spent setting up such a scheme while other departments had their budgets cut more drastically, particularly since it would benefit many outside of this country as much as those who pay their taxes to fund such a scheme.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure such a scheme would bring in far more money in the long run than it would cost to set up, but it would cost a lot in the short term and I don't think there is either the budget or the appetite within government to spend it.  I think a more likely scenario will be a scan on demand system as I mentioned previously.  But who knows for certain.

[Guy Etchells]

With regards the earlier Dove (Digitisation of Vital Events) project the following facts have been established by a Freedom of Information request back in September 2012
The FOI reference (for those who wish to view the entire reply)  FOICR 23788/12

Note this is a very much shortened extract.
 
The following records have already been digitised from microfilm.

Birth records 1837 to 1934
Death records 1837 to 1957

All information from the images was captured except the following

Births
Name of informant (if not mother or father);
Informant’s usual address;
Name of registrar;
Marginal notes.
Deaths
Cause of death;
Name of person who certified the death;
Name of registrar;
Marginal notes.

No index of the digitised records has yet been made.

No direct quotes from internal or external contractors were sought as part of the recent strategic review of the digitisation project but it is estimated it would cost £25-30m to complete the digitisation project.

This includes the digitisation and indexing (i.e. the scanning and transcription) of c.133m civil registration records, and the associated non-digitisation costs relating to image storage, system interfaces, development of the online ordering site etc.
Cost estimates subject to standard Home Office accounting rules.

The benefits from the completion of the digitisation project primarily relate to operational efficiencies to the certificate production process and total £990,000 per year (following project completion).
There are also additional wider public / certificate customer benefits.

Also asked-
“Has the GRO at any time issued guidance to records offices or archives which hold the church copies of marriage registers (or microform copies thereof) regarding public access?”

The answer given was-
“GRO has not issued such guidance routinely. However, in 1988, in response to an enquiry concerning the possible issue of “uncertified” copies of religious marriage entries from bodies holding such registers (other than churches), a letter was issued to one library which held church marriage registers indicating that we assumed that other holders of statutory registers were bound by the same limitation in providing copies as we were, i.e. information could only be given by issuing certified copies. We acknowledged that this had never been put to legal test. We advised at that time (September 1988) that in the light of proposed legislative reform concerning access to historic registration records, the Registrar General would not seek to intervene if, perhaps after consultation with the Diocesan registrar, the library were to decide to issue “uncertified” copies of such marriage entries.
The proposed legislative reform did not take place at that time or subsequently. In at least one further instance we have written to a record office enquiring about the issue of “uncertified” copies of marriage entries confirming that the above advice was given in 1988 pending anticipated legislative change. We added that in issuing an uncertified certificate a County Archivist is not covered by any provisions made under registration law.”

Since receiving that FOI reply I can confirm that the Birth and Deaths certificates have been digitised but the digitisation of marriage certificates is still outstanding.

A number of commercial companies are ready willing and able to complete the digitisation and have the technical experience to host such records online.

As I have explained at other times those companies would stand the upfront costs therefore scheme could be put into operation at no cost to the Government (taxpayer), but the will (which is still lacking) has to be there.

Far from costing money this scheme by the GRO’s own figures would save a modest £990,000 per annum and bring operating efficiencies to the registration service.
Both of which must be commended.

Cheers
Guy

[DavidG02]

Thank you Guy

I guess this could lead to another thread topic..

'' What are you ( general) , as a Family Historian , willing to accept as proof of ancestry? ''

I have seen threads and posts on RC that suggest a sense of snobbery in that those who don't have the ''proper'' certificates are only name gatherers and true Family Researchers acquire every scrap and full certificates available from certified bodies.

Now I don't begrudge people who wish to go the ''full monty'' but for my satisfaction I am happy to, at a minimum, get a transcript ( of a certificate from the Official Registrar  ) that confirms John married Louisa at such and such place on a certain date. If parents names are attached then all well and good.

And this is what I see as the  Digital Future of Family History. And this is why I would like to see this accelerated.

 

[DavidG02]

Its one thing being positive, its something else I'm afraid being realistic. 

I hope the pessimistic view is disproven but I somehow doubt that it will be, especially given the level of budget cuts allegedly still being contemplated by the new govenment.  There would probably be a bit of an uproar if a considerable amount of money was spent setting up such a scheme while other departments had their budgets cut more drastically, particularly since it would benefit many outside of this country as much as those who pay their taxes to fund such a scheme.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure such a scheme would bring in far more money in the long run than it would cost to set up, but it would cost a lot in the short term and I don't think there is either the budget or the appetite within government to spend it.  I think a more likely scenario will be a scan on demand system as I mentioned previously.  But who knows for certain.

I do fear you are right and I wondered when I read this how much would change. But I am positive that as the Government was returned that it would be a case of 'as you were'

[smudwhisk]

I do fear you are right and I wondered when I read this how much would change. But I am positive that as the Government was returned that it would be a case of 'as you were'

Its worth bearing in mind that Baroness Scott is a Liberal Democrat peer and it was only the Conservative Party that was re-elected, their junior partner, the Liberal Democrats, in the previous coalition government was somewhat trounced in the recent election.  Therefore it isn't really a case of "as you were".