Fred Gates, Raunds

[LucyRobinson]

And thank you Steve for pointing me in the right direction

[Stebie9173]

Lucy,

I think we are talking about a different Fred(erick) Gates. I have posted some details on the topic on the Great War Forum of who I think is your Frederick - who was from Stanwick rather than Raunds (though obviously only a stone's throw away).


Steve.

[LucyRobinson]

Im very confused my great grandfather was called Fred gates and is the man pictured with his brothers Walter and Ernest

[Stebie9173]

I think we are all confused!   


Can you tell us what you do know for certain about Fred and his family? Family members, dates, etc? Do you have birth and marriage certificates and the like?



Steve.

[Stebie9173]

I was basing my previous answer on the other Forum:

I think this is a different Fred Gates - "yours" is, I believe, Frederick Thomas Gates, born 1892 at Stanwick, son of Owen Thomas and Mary Ann Gates. The Fred Gates we have been looking at was Fred Gates (no middle name and Fred rather than Frederick) born in 1882 at Raunds. So, same name and born within half a mile of each other, but I think they were different people. The details we know of the Fred Gates in the Northamptonshire Regiment with number 16972 fit with the Raunds Fred Gates rather than the Stanwick Frederick Gates, as far as I can see.

on the fact that Lily Warner married a Frederick T Gates in 1917:


Name: Frederick T Gates
Spouse Surname: Warner
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1917
Registration district: Thrapston
Inferred County:   Northamptonshire
Volume Number: 3b
Page Number: 341


The Fred Gates we have been discussing above and on the GWF does not seem to have had a middle name, nor been anything other than "Fred"


There is a very similar family to the one we have discussed above who lived in neighbouring Stanwick - this family also had a Frederick, a Walter and an Ernest (Ernest Owen Gates' service records are online).


This is that "Other" family I refer to:


Frederick Thomas Gates 1892 - 1962

Parents:

Owen Henry Gates 1876 – 1968
Mary Ann Barker 1868 – 1942

Siblings:

Ernest Owen Gates 1891 – 1970
Herbert Sidney Gates 1894 – 1895
William Arthur Gates 1896 – 1972
Beatrice E P Gates 1900 – 1916
Walter Jim Gates 1903 – 1988
Bertha Lillian Gates 1904 –
Mary Gates 1909 –
William Henry Gates 1910 – 1995


There are two very similar family trees on Ancestry that show the above family members and associate then with the Frederick T Gates who married Lily Warner.



Steve.

[LucyRobinson]

Oh right ok I understand how confusing though?
Two family's with the same surname both with a Fred Walter and Ernest in neighbouring villages, perhaps they are related? Could Owen and Thomas be brothers? Just a thought

[Rataouille]

Yes there were two Fred Gates in the same area. The one who is your grandfather I believe died in Raunds on 11th June 1946 aged 61. Yes it is confusing that there were two people with the same name in the same area.

There is an F Gates listed as one of the marchers in the the 1905 Raunds Strike of boot makers and march to London but again I have no idea if this is my Fred or yours.
 

[Stebie9173]

I think the Fred Gates who died in 1946 , aged 61 is actually a third Fred Gates (from Hargrave, born about 1885)!


Frederick Thomas Gates died in 1962, I believe, age 69/70.


Steve.

[LucyRobinson]

My family know very little about the gates family back then, so has been very difficult. It's still quite hard as you say which Fred did what and when. I have a photograph of my Fred with his wife lily and there are similarities to your Fred, so I presumed they where the same person. I was originally searching my grand father Donald Reginald Gates but I am able to find very little about him. He told us stories of world war 2 but j can find absolutely no record of him