Fred Gates, Raunds

[whiteout7]

This puzzles me
Frederick Gates Service number 16972 has two medal cards, so you would need both?
Maybe they both refer to two different times of service?

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_fn=&_ln=Gates&_no=16972&_crp=&_ttl=&_cr1=WO+372&_dt=M&_col=200&_hb=tna&image1.x=58&image1.y=13

I don't know if ancestry shows both but I would certainly get both from the British archives (if you can) and compare the two. Why one of them talks about Women's services is bizarre, was he training ww1 female spies? Or is this information just dumped in with the MM roll? Notice the two war office reference numbers are different even though the service numbers are the same.

I have got mine off British archives before and the site works well. My own gr.grandfather only has one medal card, so why does Frederick Gates have two? You will find the first theatre of war on them, medal entitlements and where he was posted around.

[larkspur]

Medal Card
Fred Gates 6 North'n R 16972 SGT
Class 'Z' 1.3.19 Victory Medal and British War Medal
Theatre of War (1) France date of Entry 26.7.15.

As I already mentioned he seem's to have been in the Army on the 1901 census.
 Fred Gates - Guard -single- 19-Private-- cannot read the regiment looks like / Wales Borderers ( maybe someone else can read it better than me) born Raunds Northamptonshire
Class: RG13; Piece: 612; Folio: 90; Page: 28

[seahall]

I think it is S Wales Borderers.

Sandy

[Stebie9173]

The other card (with the WO 372/23 reference) is for his Military Medal gallantry award.


I have discussed Fred Gates before with someone called Michael - it look like the photo above was one I copied from the local papers.


I have made a fairly long post on a different forum about Fred Gates. Are you aware of this already?



Steve.

[Alders]

Have you tried the London Gazette? I am hit & miss on searching it but i found my own Grandfather had listed an add there stating his change of name in 1944, he was in the forces too, his signed up as a Savory & left as a Gilbert ( i have his service records & it was changed on them)

[Alders]

this topic has been mentioned before here
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=181675

[Stebie9173]

Fred Gates Military Medal was in the London Gazette of 11-11-1916

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29819/supplement/10922


The Military Medal was first instituted in March 1916 and in late 1916 some of the awards that were previously recommended (but didn't quite qualify for a DCM) were made as Military Medals, these being for deeds between August 1914 (where applicable to individual battalions) through to April/May 1916. Fred Gates' M.M. appears in the Gazette along with other 6th Battalion men award the M.M. for this earlier period. I don't believe that it relates to the Somme period of their war in July 1916.



Steve.

[Rataouille]

Thanks to you all for your replies.

In particular Stebie9173. Yes you did make an extensive reply to Michael who passed it on to me. That reply forms the core of information I have on Fred. Since then the only thing I have been able to add is, as I said here in my original post, that having visited Raunds a year ago to take a look at the three addresses the Gates family had lived at I was astonished to see, at the junction of Hill St. and Gladstone St. another street sign for Laswon St. This is clearly where the new name came from but I am still no closer to finding why the name was changed.

[LucyRobinson]

Hi
I am one of Fred gates great granddaughters my mum was Karen gates daughter of Donald gates son of Fred gates and lily Warner
This is all such a shock but would explain why this family is so difficult to trace.