Author Topic: Sawyer family - Levi/Joseph - Burslem, early 1800s  (Read 7972 times)

Offline dmaxwell81

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Sawyer family - Levi/Joseph - Burslem, early 1800s
« on: Friday 15 May 15 01:32 BST (UK) »
I am looking for information on a Levi (in some trees he is called Levi Joseph Sawyer, but I don't know where the Joseph comes from) Sawyer, supposed to have been born in Burslem Staffordshire on 17 Mar 1825. I looked through what was available for this parish on familysearch, and while it showed some of his reputed siblings, nothing for him.

I found this old thread for what is supposed to be the same family:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=561525.0

There is a book mentioned in that thread, The Richard and Harriet Hopkins family, Empire Prairie pioneers, which covers what is supposed to be the same family, but Levi is only mentioned in passing. 

There are a couple of records on Ancestry.com, "Seventy Quorum Membership, 1835–1846", and "Membership of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1830-1848", which give Levi Sawyer and 1839 LDS baptism date, and also give his parents as Ralph Sawyer and Mary Winkle, but I cannot find the works that they base their information on (i.e. contemporary record of this parentage, although I do believe it is 99% likely).

Levi does seems to fit with this Wisconsin Sawyer family in the above book, but they are supposed to have immigrated in the early 1840s, so I don't know how Levi got baptized LDS in 1839, unless it was in England, but the book doesn't mention any Mormon connection.  However, in looking at the history of LDS missionary work in England, the Staffordshire potters seem to have been early targets for conversion. 

In the 1841 Census, in Burslem, there are a John and Joseph Sawyer living together.  John's age roughly corresponds with John, son of Ralph, baptized in 1820, and the 'Joseph' is said to be about 15 in 1841, which is close to Levi's stated birth date of 1825.  However, their occupations both seem to be called mining (tough to read), and not potters, and John appears in the household with his father Ralph in the 1841 census.

I have seen some mention online that he married an Elizabeth Bell in 1845 in Nauvoo IL, but I couldn't find a record of it.  He did marry Rose Ann Ball in WI in 1851, and she appears with him in the 1855 Wisconsin State Census and later the Federal 1860 Census in Utah. I cannot find him in 1870 or 1880, but he does appear, as a widower, on the New Mexico 1885 Territorial census with his family, including my great-great-grandmother Rosa Belle, as well as his oldest son named Ralph - however, online trees have this son Ralph being born in 1851, and dying in 1856 or so, but the census clearly calls this Ralph Levi's son.  His age is also off from the 1851 Ralph, and this young man does not appear in the 1860 census with Levi.

The Ralph Sawyer/Mary Winkle family also seems to have lived in Liverpool for a time.

Offline trish1120

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Re: Sawyer family - Levi/Joseph - Burslem, early 1800s
« Reply #1 on: Friday 15 May 15 11:14 BST (UK) »
BAPTISMS
Zoar Chapel,
Burslem, Staffordshire
HUGH Sawyer, 6 Sept 1818 (birth 14 July 1818)
Parents RALPH/MARY, nee Winkle
Fathers Occp Potter
Notes; 1st child born to this family. Wife's Father's name Joseph WINKLE, Potter of Burslem, Staffs
+
JOHN Sawyer, 6 Feb 1820 (birth 16 Jan 1820),  same Church/details. Notes; 2nd Child
EDNA Sawyer, 26 Feb 1837 same Church

JOHN was Baptised twice;
6 Feb 1820, Hanley Methodist New Connexion Circuit, Hanley, Staffs
+
HENRY, same place, 3 March 1822 (birth 12 Feb 1822)

All above on FreeREG

So submitted info on Mary Winkle is incorrect as they have her Parents as THOMAS/HANNAH and her born earlier than her Parents!

Appears to be Levi in 1841;

1841 Census
HO107/987/11/Burslem
Benjamin Weld, 50, Baker
Sarah Weld, 50
Mary Weld, 15
Benjamin Weld, 13
Henry Weld, 11
Lucy Morris, 15
Ann Daniel, 25
LEVII Lawyer, 15, Baker *****

Image is WILD and SAWYER

Benjamin/Sarah Wild do not appear to be related to Levi as Benjamin married Sarah WALKER 1820 (FreeREG)

Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Sawyer family - Levi/Joseph - Burslem, early 1800s
« Reply #2 on: Friday 15 May 15 11:26 BST (UK) »
EDIT the Parents for Mary WINKLE Thomas/Hannah may be my mistake as I posted that on the earlier query you linked :-[

Mary WINKLE Baptised 17 Nov 1799, St John the Evangelist, Hanley, Staffs
Parents JOS/MARY
(FreeREG)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline dmaxwell81

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Re: Sawyer family - Levi/Joseph - Burslem, early 1800s
« Reply #3 on: Friday 15 May 15 11:33 BST (UK) »
Thanks, I missed the Levi 'Lawyer' one.  I still can't figure out where in the heck the 'Joseph' comes from, yet. This family scattered widely because the father Ralph couldn't take care of all of his children, apparently. The mother immigrated, is living with son John in the 1850 census in WI, and died along with one of her daughters in St Louis (her grave is on FindAGrave), who was living there in the 1850 Census.

But again the issue I am having is what the early LDS index says (I emailed the professor who wrote it asking for details, since it doesn't seem to be available in book form) that he was baptized in Nauvoo IL in 1839 - which doesn't sound right. Then there is the marriage of Levi's that was supposed to happen in 1845, which I cannot find, though most early LDS marriages (of dubious legality as far as the government was concerned) are hard to find records for.

Yes, I noticed that many trees didn't pick up on that Mary Winkle wasn't the one baptized in Burslem.  What other people also didn't pick up on is that Ralph and Mary resided in Liverpool for a few years - the names and ages correspond perfectly with known children of this same couple - Louisa was baptized at St James in Liverpool on 8 Nov 1829 and Rosannah follows on 20 Nov 1831. (Both girls immigrate to the US)  I suspect the reason that Levi's baptism hasn't been found is because of the parents parish hopping - there is a gap in the middle 1820s.  Their sojourn in Liverpool must have been a failure because they are back in Staffordshire by 1841.

That book I mentioned above about the Sawyer/Winkle family is full of errors (not just the 'birth date' of Mary Winkle) - Ralph Sawyer was not an only child, Ralph was baptized at nearby Hanley as 'Ralph Sayer' on 22 Sep 1799, and his brother Hugh follows on 6 Jun 1802.


Offline Zen rabbit

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Re: Sawyer family - Levi/Joseph - Burslem, early 1800s
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 31 May 15 14:00 BST (UK) »
If Ralph and Mary were potters from Staffordshire living in Liverpool then it is quite likely that they were working at the Herculaneum factory at Toxteth Park which ran from 1796 - 1840. Almost the entire workforce were employed from the Staffordshire potteries, travelling to Liverpool by barge. When the factory closed in 1840 many of them returned to Staffordshire.
Details of the pottery are covered in "The Herculaneum Pottery -Liverpool's forgotten glory" by Peter Hyland
Extracts from the Lancashire parishes can be found here : http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
I have missing baptisms from ancestors that worked there. For though there was a chapel and many baptisims I believe that children born on the journey between Liverpool and Burslem may have been baptised along the way or else not baptised at all.
Stanton of Stafford
Bourne of Stoke-on-Trent
Smith of Stoke-on-Trent
Philpott of Pontesbury
Pugh of Worthen & Pontesbury

Offline dmaxwell81

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Re: Sawyer family - Levi/Joseph - Burslem, early 1800s
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 31 May 15 15:16 BST (UK) »
If Ralph and Mary were potters from Staffordshire living in Liverpool then it is quite likely that they were working at the Herculaneum factory at Toxteth Park which ran from 1796 - 1840. Almost the entire workforce were employed from the Staffordshire potteries, travelling to Liverpool by barge. When the factory closed in 1840 many of them returned to Staffordshire.
Details of the pottery are covered in "The Herculaneum Pottery -Liverpool's forgotten glory" by Peter Hyland
Extracts from the Lancashire parishes can be found here : http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
I have missing baptisms from ancestors that worked there. For though there was a chapel and many baptisims I believe that children born on the journey between Liverpool and Burslem may have been baptised along the way or else not baptised at all.

Thank you for the information.  That is definitely possible, but I now strongly believe that the missing Sawyer baptisms may have happened at Hanley parish.  There is a huge gap in coverage Findmypast/Freereg for that parish between 1804 and about 1841.  A few of the baptisms after that are on familysearch, but not many.   Not just Levi's baptism is missing, but the other two middle children - Henry (the only child who came back and stayed in England) and Edwin, as well as the last child Harriet.

Offline Zen rabbit

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Re: Sawyer family - Levi/Joseph - Burslem, early 1800s
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 31 May 15 18:49 BST (UK) »
If I get a chance to visit the archives this week I will have a look for you
Stanton of Stafford
Bourne of Stoke-on-Trent
Smith of Stoke-on-Trent
Philpott of Pontesbury
Pugh of Worthen & Pontesbury

Offline dmaxwell81

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Re: Sawyer family - Levi/Joseph - Burslem, early 1800s
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 31 May 15 18:55 BST (UK) »
If I get a chance to visit the archives this week I will have a look for you

Thank you. There is another family I am investigating at Hanley; there are two families, both baptizing children there, Joseph Winkle and Mary.  The only way I can tell the difference between them in the records is there occupations - one Joseph Winkle is a potter (this would be my Joseph) and the other is called a miner.  The abstracts on Familysearch don't give the occupations, but I also don't know if the originals say them, either.  I can give you dates for these children as well as the approximate birth date for the missing Sawyer children (i dont have abstracts for them).

Offline Zen rabbit

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Re: Sawyer family - Levi/Joseph - Burslem, early 1800s
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 31 May 15 19:41 BST (UK) »
Yes if you give me the dates I will see what I can do.
Co-incidentally I have both Sawyers and Winkles in my family tree.
Samuel Winkle (1887 - 1947) married my great grand aunt Minnie Bourne in 1909. His father was Frank Winkle (1861) and he was one of seven children.
and
Samuel Sawyer (1823-1895) married my 4th great grand aunt Elizabeth Bourne in 1843. His father was John Sawyer (1789-1861)
All lived in Burslem
Stanton of Stafford
Bourne of Stoke-on-Trent
Smith of Stoke-on-Trent
Philpott of Pontesbury
Pugh of Worthen & Pontesbury