Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim

[Gilby]

Hi Corinthian,

My first thought is that your John Bell and wife Susannah are the John Bell and Susannah Clements mentioned by oakman-ireland in reply #30 of this thread (page 4).  If they had a son called Dolway, it may fit with the Clements-Dalway theory Donna was working on (e.g. see post #94 on the previous page).

However, the dates don’t look like they match up.  What are the sources for John and Susannah’s family?

Gilby

[SpudKiwi]

Last year I went to PRONI looking for evidence that John Bell of Ballytrummery and John Bell of Glenfield were the same man. I found that they were not.

I have DNA matches that descend from Robert Bell of Glenfield (brother) so it seemed plausible.

What I did find was that John Bell of Ballytrummery (father of Allen Bell of Crumlin) was buried at Glenavy September 5, 1843 aged 64. In 1839 December 2, there is a burial record for Susan wife of John Bell of Ballytrummery aged 67.

The Calendar of Wills index has a listing for John Bell Glenavy 1843, but the will has not survived.

Probate was granted to Benjamin Oakman September 26, 1845.

1842 A deed: Memorial of Indented Deed of settlement and assignment dated 1st August 1833, and made between William Oakman of Pigeonstown Co Antrim farmer 1st part, and James Shubridge of Belfast Co Antrim Victualler and Susanna Shubridge otherwise Oakman his wife daughter of sd Wm Oakman 2nd part, and John Bell of Ballytrummery in said county of Antrim farmer and John Oakman of Pigeonstown in said County Farmer as Trustees of said Susanna Shubridge of the 3rd part.....

1846 January 26 Bankrupt and Insolvent Calendar : Assignees appointed to Insolvents Estate - In the matter of John Bell of Ballytrummery county Antrim farmer - Assignee Appointed - John Bell, Glenfield, near Crumlin, county Antrim, Farmer, in room of Bennett McGarry, removed.

Apart from the 2 John Bells being different men, I'm not too sure what to make of the rest of it. Did not notice a marriage for John and Susan, or if they had any children.

[SpudKiwi]

Also:
1845 March 15, in the Vindicator:
English vs Oakman, Executor of John Bell

Mr Crozier opened the pleadings. The declaration contained two counts, and damages were laid at 300l. Defendant pleaded plene administravit.

Mr Nelson stated the plaintiffs case. This was an action brought to recover the sum of 45l, the amount of a promissory note passed by the testator to the defendant in the year 1842.

Several witnesses were produced, who proved that the defendant had received assets of the testator to the value of about 290l.

For the defence, it was relied on that the defendant was entitled to retain out of the assets a salary, which he claimed, as the steward and manager of the testator; and a number of witnesses were produced, who proved that the defendant had lived with the testator. and had assisted him in the management of his farm. It was also proved that the defendant had made payments to the amount of £230 on account of debts due by the testator at the time of his death.

His Lordship charged the jury; and in a few minutes, they brought in a verdict for the plaintiff, £45 damages, and 6d costs.

[SpudKiwi]

I have DNA matches also with 5 descendants of Clements Bell and Sarah Ann Palmer, and 3 descendants of Judge Alexander McCullough Bell.
I am up to 10 DNA matches now with descendants of Robert Bell of Glenfield. None of these are suitable for a Y-DNA test though.

[corinthian]

Hi Gilby,

I though that too initially and then realised that the dates did not match.

According to the 'Irish Genealogy on the NET Parish: Ballinderry' website John Bell died in the spring of 1846 of 'Fever', aged 50.

Also from Glenavy Monument Inscriptions: 'Erected by John Bell of Ballinderry in memory of his dearly beloved wife Susanna who departed this life 19th April 1839 aged 31. Robert Bell died November 1890 also his sister Margaret died April 1890 also of their son Conway aged 9 months'. I don't know if the years of the death of Robert Bell and his sister, Margaret, are correct, or how they connect with John Bell, (possibly siblings, but then year of death must be incorrect??). Conway was a son of John and Susanna who was born in 1829 and who died in 1830, (they went on to name another son Conway later on in 1830). I have been unable to trace their deaths via the Irishgenealogy.ie website.

The dates for his children were sourced from the Ulster Historical Foundation and Family Search.org.

I have traced son, Arthur, in the 1851 census taken on 30/03/1851, (census). (I think this was also sourced from the 'Irish Genealogy on the NET Parish: Ballinderry' website).  Arthur is living in BallyMcrevan Townland, Ballinderry, County Antrim, unmarried, aged 22. Also in the household is sister, Emma, aged 14, and brother, Edward (Edwin), aged 11. Father, John Bell, is recorded as having previously lived in the household, before he died, in the spring of 1846, aged 50, of fever.  It is also recorded that a servant, (housemaid), named Elizabeth Winington, aged 60, had previously lived at the address. She died in the spring of 1847, of fever. Conway Fitzgerald, aged 76, who was a friend, also died, aged 76.  He died in the winter of 1850, of fever. He is recorded as a farmer and friend.   

I have been unable to trace any further information regarding Arthur but do know what happened to some of his other children.   

I think that the George Bell that I have a DNA match with may be another son of my John Bell and his wife Susannah, born in about 1821.

Coreen 

[corinthian]

Have found some Court of Chancery Records, 1633-1851, for some of my Bells. Not quite sure if I understand them correctly. The court date is 18/08/1845. Bill amended 31/12/1845. George Bell and William Bell an?? Infant by George his (who is this referring to??) grandsons?? deceased 1845. Ans' Rebecca Bell Arthur Bell Conway Bell & Elezth Bell, (Ezekiel??), Juliana Bell, James Bell, Emma Bell and Edwin John Bell Infants by Henry Darley Eagle one of the clerks in court their guardian 27/05/1846.   No mention of Dolway so he probably died very young.

[Gilby]

Have found some Court of Chancery Records, 1633-1851, for some of my Bells. Not quite sure if I understand them correctly. The court date is 18/08/1845. Bill amended 31/12/1845. George Bell and William Bell an?? Infant by George his (who is this referring to??) grandsons?? deceased 1845. Ans' Rebecca Bell Arthur Bell Conway Bell & Elezth Bell, (Ezekiel??), Juliana Bell, James Bell, Emma Bell and Edwin John Bell Infants by Henry Darley Eagle one of the clerks in court their guardian 27/05/1846.   No mention of Dolway so he probably died very young.

The bit referring to George and William Bell is:

Ans^r George Bell & W^m Bell an infant by s^d George his Guardⁿ

[Gilby]

SpudKiwi,

Do you have the full ROD reference for the two deeds you mentioned?

You mentioned a John Bell of Ballytromery who died in 1843, and then there was a John Bell of same place who was bankrupt in 1846.  One of them was involved with William Oakman of Pigeontown in 1842 which would fit with them being connected via their wives, e.g. the family could look something like this…?

--- John Bell (c1779-1843) married (1810) Susannah Clements (c1772-1839)
------ John Bell (alive in 1846) married Margaret Cormican
--------- Anne Bell (b. c1840)
--------- Allen Bell (b. c1841)
--------- Catherine Bell (b. c1843)
--------- John Bell (b. c1844)

Gilby

[Gilby]

I didn’t have John Bell of Glenfield on my tree so I had a look for newspaper notices…

Northern Whig, 09 March 1843:
EXTENSIVE FORGERIES
   Robert Bell was then given in charge to the jury, indicted with having forged a bill of exchange, for 330l., the acceptance of John Bell.
   John Millar, examined --- I know the prisoner at the bar, and I know John Bell, his brother.  John Bell resides at Glenfield, near Crumlin.  I recollect the prisoner coming to me, in December, 1841.  He said he was about making some purchases, and asked me if I would discount a bill.  This was at Ballymena.  I said I would, if I would get a good acceptance.  I discounted the bill [produced], and gave him the money.  I knew John Bell.  I took that bill as the genuine acceptance of John Bell, of Glenfield.
…….
   John Bell, examined by Mr. WHITESIDE --- I am John Bell, of Glenfield.  The prisoner is my brother.  [The bill was here handed to witness.]  The name of John Bell, the acceptor of this bill, is not in my handwriting.  I did not give authority to any person to write my name on the bill.  I never saw the bill till it was dishonoured by Mr. Millar.  I could not swear by whim the name of the drawer [?] was written.  ……. I said to my brother, that I would not go security for him, as I had lost too much by doing such things for Henry (another brother) already. …….. I am not now in so good circumstances as I was some time ago.  I have been thrown into immense losses.

Belfast News-Letter, 16 October 1849:
Oct. 5, at the advanced age of 88 years, Mrs. Bell, of Glenfield, Crumlin.

Weekly Examiner (Belfast), 23 November 1878:
BELL – November 16, at Crumlin, John Bell, late of Glenfield, aged 88 years.