Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim

[DonnaMarie1982]

Hi all hope you are well!

So I was contacted by a descendant of one Clement Bell yesterday who was wondering if there might be a tie between this individual and the Clements family of Clements Hill. Clement was born 1793 in Glenavy to a John Bell. (source Parish record)

So I've been digging through and come up with a bit of a theory that I thought I might get some opinions on.

I'm wondering if given ages Clement may be a brother of Dolway Bell (given that we have the above family names being used from the Clements family) the ages would certainly lend to that with Dolway born 1800 /1799.

Dolway has in his will one of the executors Benjamin Oakham. Benjamin Oakham is the son of William Oakham and Alicia Clements.

Alicia has a sister Susannah who marries a Johh Bell in 1810 a month after the death of her father William Clements.

What I am wondering is this. Would it be feasible that for some reason there was a block to Susannah and John being married while her father was alive. And would this mean that Dolway Bell and Clement Bell are children of the couple perhaps born out of wedlock.

I'm hoping to get across to Ireland next year and delve into some parish records if possible. I was just wondering what peoples thoughts were on the above as a working theory.

Donna x

[Gilby]

Hi Donna,

You may be right, but to me it sounds like too much of a leap for John Bell and Susannah Clements (m. 1810) to be the parents of Clements Bell (b. c1790) and Dalway Bell (b. c1799). 

I think it is more likely John was another sibling of Clements and Dalway, and that John and Susannah were cousins.  I quite often see marriages of daughters soon after the deaths of their fathers – perhaps there was pressure on the family finances.

John Bell (c1803-1879) of Carnaghliss had a son called Clements (b. c1850), so he probably fits into the family somewhere.  I know of at least one none-Bell descendant of his who was done a y-DNA test, if you’re looking for a candidate for autosomal testing.

There’s also a Clements Bell of Carnaughliss born c1817, son of Alexander, who married Margaret Gibson in 1848.  Where do they fit?

Gilby

[Gilby]

Since the name “Clements Bell” crops up a few times in the Bell family of Carnaghliss, I decided to look at them with the help of 1851 census records and gravestone inscriptions (I have photos).


Alexander BELL (c1742-1810) m. Mary ____ (?-1815)


Alexander BELL (c1781-?) m. (1800) Nancy ____?
   Alexander BELL (c1813-?) m. (1842) Eliza ____?
      David BELL (c1845-?)
      Nancy BELL (c1847-?)
      Alexander BELL (c1850-?)
   David BELL  (c1815-1909) m. (1860) Fanny ROBB (c1837-1922)
      Agnes BELL (c1861-1923)
      David BELL (1873-1957)
      Clements BELL (1877-?)
      George Clarke BELL (1881-1938)


Alexander BELL
   Clements BELL (c1817-?) m. (1848) Margaret GIBSON


John BELL (c1803-1879) m. Jane Eliza ____?
   Catherine BELL (c1832-1893) m. (1850) EDW ALEXANDER
   Alexander BELL (c1833-1874)
   Agnes BELL (c1835-1921) m. (1858) Samuel JOHNSTON
   Eleanor BELL (c1836-?) m. (1860) David ARMSTRONG
   Margaret BELL (c1838-1850)
   Jane Elizabeth BELL (c1840-?) m. ____ MOORE
   Samuel BELL (c1842-1882)
   John BELL (c1842-1888) m. (1863) Harriett KIRKPATRICK
   David BELL (c1846-1902)
   Mary Susan BELL (c1846-?) m. Archibald MAIRS
   Clements BELL (c1850-1915)
   Robert BELL (c1856-1861)
   William BELL (?-1885)


It seems likely that the second Alexander was a son of the 1st.  And John Bell (c1803-1879) may have been a son or nephew of the second Alexander.

This would suggest the Clements name goes back at least as far as Nancy, and possibly back to Mary.

I’m not sure where these Bells sit geographically in relation to Clements Bell (born c1793) and Dalway Bell (born c1799)…?

[cdnbooklover]

Clements Bell (b. 1793) was my 2x great-grandfather who lived in Ballyvorally Townland, Glenavy Parish. This is not terribly far from Carnaghliss which is in Killead Parish. I don't know the exact distance though.

[Kiltaglassan]

Carnaghliss townland to Ballyvorally townland (on the shore of Lough Neagh and west of Glenavy village) is approx 8 - 9 miles.
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/massereene-upper/glenavy/glenavy/ballyvorally/

Carnaghliss - https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4495142#map=13/54.6116/-6.1578

[DonnaMarie1982]

I have a copy of the Glenavy Parish register for Clements Bell 1793 which says his father is a John bell. Unfortunately I cant check if Dolway Bell who lives close by and is of very similar age has the same fathers name as the person who was researching this only has the one page of the register. (Cant wait to get back over to Ireland and have a look through some things!)

That's a whole lot of Bells you found Gilby! There is also a Dolway Bell born 1836 in Ballinderry to a John Bell - which is where my line of Clements are so I do wonder if there is another connection going off there somewhere between the families or if this is just a coincidence.

Not a bad thought on John perhaps being an older sibling of Dolway and Clement again would be worth looking into on the register at PRONI.

Donna

[Gilby]

Clements Bell (b. 1793) was my 2x great-grandfather who lived in Ballyvorally Townland, Glenavy Parish. This is not terribly far from Carnaghliss which is in Killead Parish. I don't know the exact distance though.

I have a copy of the Glenavy Parish register for Clements Bell 1793 which says his father is a John bell.

Just to keep me right, are you both talking about the same person?  Do you know who he married and what children he had?

[Gilby]

It turns out there was an even earlier “Clements Bell” who died in Boltnaconnell aged 82 in 1845:
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1851/Antrim/Lower_Massereene/Killead/Boltnaconnell/22/

____ BELL
   David BELL (c1761-1845)
   Clements BELL (c1763-1845)
      Clements BELL (c1800-1870) m. Jane HERON
         William BELL (c1824-1878) m. (1865) Agnes QUIREY
         Mary Jane BELL m. James ARCHER
         Alexander BELL m. (1862) Elizabeth FULTON
         Clements BELL (d. 1860)
      William Sayers BELL (c1820-?) m. (1847) Elizabeth IRELAND
         John Ireland BELL (c1848-?)
         Clements BELL (c1849-1915)
      Clementina BELL (c1827-1909) m. Samuel SUFFERN
         William SUFFERN
         Sarah SUFFERN
         Mary SUFFERN
         Violet SUFFEN

Clements BELL (c1800-1870) moved to Ballyearl.  His son William BELL named his “uncle” William Sayers BELL as an executor.  However, there is a big age difference, so if I’ve got this right then the first Clements probably had two wives, and may have had a load of other children.

Interestingly, William Sayers Bell said in the 1901 census that he was born “in Belfast”.  Here are a few other Boltnaconnell Bells I haven’t been able to place yet…

William BELL m. ____?
   Joseph BELL (c1802-?), schoolmaster m. (1849) Agnes HAWTHORN

David BELL m. Nancy CATHCART
   Agnes BELL m. (1827) Daniel REA
   Jane BELL m. (1828) Samuel COURTNEY
   David BELL m. (1830) Mary HINDMAN

The last family is from the Killead Presbyterian marriage register.

[Gilby]

Dolway has in his will one of the executors Benjamin Oakham. Benjamin Oakham is the son of William Oakham and Alicia Clements.

Is this the Benjamin OAKMAN who married Jane BULLICK in 1849?