Allen Bell, b.1840/41 Crumlin, Co Antrim

[DonnaMarie1982]

There is also a Dalway Clements on the 1659 Penders Census in the barony of Toome (Antrim) - this could be the same Dalway on the 1680 Hearth Roll suggesting as Gilby pointed out that the name Dalway Clements may predate the marriage of Elinor Dalway and Edward Clements.

I have a Dalway Clements at Trinity College Dublin. The Alumni records state he was born 1678 and his father was a Dalway Clements of Magherafelt Co. Antrim. Dalway b.1678.

As always it definitely bears further research and I will continue to collect any information I can find and try and work bloodlines downwards to see if there are any DNA ties.

Donna

[Gilby]

Hi Donna,

Interesting to hear that the Clements of Magherafelt and Ballinderry are linked to the Clements of Straid.  That is good!  Do you have any examples of wills I should look up?

There are several Clements wills at PRONI which are already on my “to do” list.  I’m only interested because they were local to where I grew up.  I’m also interested in the Dalway, Edmonston connections etc etc.

Looking at my tree, there was at least one earlier Clements / Dalway marriage.  E.g. John Dalway of Bellahill (will dated 1687) mentions both his sister Elinor Clements (married to Edward Clements), and his cousin Andrew Clements.  I think Andrew’s parents might have been Andrew Clements and Helen Dalway…?

How does this look as a potential tree for the Magherafelt branch?

Dalway CLEMENTS (c1660-c1721)
    Dalway CLEMENTS (c1693-?) m. _____ TRACY
        Wheelwright CLEMENTS (b. bef. 1729)

Gilby

[DonnaMarie1982]

Ahhh Thats very interesting! A slightly earlier marriage would definitely explain how I've now got up above Elinor and Edward and the name Dalway is being used - I guess its a case of 'keeping it in the family' as was so oft the case. I cant find the name being used anywhere else and I still think it is born out of the Dalway surname somewhere. 

Thank you for the information I will certainly delve into it!

Having moved things around I still need to prove conclusively that the lines are connected. I have the Ballindery line going back to a Dalway Clements (gent) at Ballinderry. I wonder if this might be the same Dalway mentioned in Penders census 1659 for the Barony of Toome the Dalway on the census is listed as Leut however so it may be yet another Dalway in area.

 I thought I had the Dalway line sorted before as the gravestone of Elinor Dalway in Ballynure Graveyard is very commonly mistranscibed as d1628 rather than 1698. Having studied the photos - (I would love to go and see it to be completely sure) I think there is a wear mark below the 9 that has made it at a glance look like a number 2. I'm pretty sure its a wear mark as if you look at the rest of the stone the text is dead level and the bottom of this 2 is the only part that is out of line. Because of this previously I thought the Hearth Roll Dalway and the 1659 Penders Census Dalway fit as a child of Elinor and Edward but the movement of the date changed this.


There does seem to be a connection with Dublin as well, whether that is just because it was fashionable to be seen Im not sure. Dalway Clements who dies 1721 attends Trinity college there, I believe he then stays in the city as there is a newspaper article about a Chandlers shop and also John Bolton of the below mentioned wills is of Dublin. Elinor and Edward Dalway marry in Dublin.

If you drop me a private message I'd be happy to send you an invite so you can view what I have on ancestry. I have the associated wills attached on there.

Ballinderry linked wills
Dalway Clements 1721
Mary Humphrey 1738
John Bolton 1759

Glenavy Wills
William Clements 1810
William Clements 1818
See also Hercules Clements (Son of Elinor and Edward) 1751

I thought that William Clements might be related to Elinor and Edward with Hercules being around the area with them but then I have also found mention of a Christopher Clements will listed as 1668 in Glenavy.

Its definintely a puzzler and good for the brain cells! I feel some of the answers may be contained within the Adair papers at PRONI.

Thank you for helping me sound things out!

Donna

[TheWhuttle]

Donna,

The spirit of Life drives all as usual ...

https://carrickfergushistory.co.uk/dalway-the-cassie-and-the-cattle-empire/
--------

Despite the king’s grant, Dalway still had to be cautious about external claims to his lands at this time.

In the early 1600s Englishman Baptist Jones held large swathes of land in Marshallstown as a tenant of Sir Arthur Chichester, but also lay claim to several hundred acres of Dalway’s land “across the mearing” in Kilroot Parish, which may have extended to the bawn.

This claim leaves its mark in modern day as the tiny townland of Crossmary.

This threat to Dalway’s land seems to have come to nothing.


Jones took over lease of lands belonging to the Worshipful Company of Vintners in Bellaghy in 1617 and is likely to have relocated there at this time.
He established his own bawn there (Bellaghy Bawn) in about 1619.
He later became head of the company and was knighted in 1621.
.
.
The last of the Dalways to live at the bawn – Marriot Robert Dalway and his family – emigrated to Australia in 1886, settling in Lorne, Victoria.

--------

Phew, 'tis a fair oul' story that you're unravelling there !

Capt. Jock
[Trawler of the murky depths & descendant of a long line of publicans.]

[Gilby]

Hi Donna,

I have seen the Clements/Dalway headstone in the flesh and I have a pretty good photo.  I agree that the “1628” should be “1698”.  It looks to me that someone later has scratched on the tail to the 9, and also carved 7 above the 8.

I think the History of Carrickfergus says she died in 1696.

Apart from anything else, it just wouldn’t make sense for Ellinor’s dates to be 1595-1628.  The first John Dalway who founded the family died in 1615.  Ellinor’s father would have been his grandnephew.

John Dalway the elder nephew of the original John Dalway did not come of age till after his uncle’s death.  So he might have been born c1600.  His daughter Helen could have been born c1620, and she could have had a son Dalway Clements born c1640.  It is possible, but the timeline is a bit tight for Dalway on Prender’s census.

Capt. Jock, thanks for reminding us about that interesting article.  If Time Team were still doing their thing I’d get them out to find the old bawn in Castletown – I’d love to know if there’s any trace of it.

Gilby

[DonnaMarie1982]

Thank you for the confirmation of the headstone! I had figured out that the dates didnt match up to her ancestors and went back to look at the photos I could find online of the grave stone and just thought that 2 looked out and it was a 9.

From what I understand of Penders Census, it has a lengthy intro on the website I found it on, they dont actually know the dates it was carried out as that wasnt recorded at the time also with it being carried out by just a few people it likely took place over a number of years so the 1659 is an approx date on that document. It was quite heavy reading but thats what I took away from the information on it.

I'd really like to see the will of Edward Clements that is located with the Adair Papers and see if that shows any family names, I also believe the land deeds for Clements Hill are contained there as well.

What an episode of time team that would be!

Donna

Donna

[TheWhuttle]

Gilby,

Yes, 'tis time to bring back the TT experience a.s.a.p. to Norn Iron.
[My old grandad used to act as marshall for it in the 1950-1960s, as well as for the go-karting!]


Only teasing - you meant the more "Earthy" stuff.
[Where there's muck there's brass (or hopefully gold)!]

This URL shows the geographical connection between
  Dalway's Bawn & Castle Dobbs (near Ballycarry village / Carrickfergus town)
  Castlehill (near Ballynure village).

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bpe8-Lbybks/TL1yrY7mG7I/AAAAAAAAASY/4ycfBWB8ksw/s1600/clements+hill.jpg

[Such was one of the many offerings produced from throwing ' "dalway's bawn" +map' in to a BING search.]



Pretty sure that the TT series has run its run.
[Though "The Big Dig" seems to be a follow on ...]

There were a few episodes from NI, most notably at () Dundrum Castle, O'Neill's Castle and Dunseverick (Iron Age roundhouses).

The Dundrum evacuation unexpectedly uncovered a "cashell" (an early Irish Christian church).
[Unfortunately, no "stash of cash" - the Leprechauns had moved the end of the rainbow elsewhere the day before.]

This was the place that John de COURCY established his first foothold in Ulster.
He was married to Affreca, daughter of the King of Man and the Isles.
[Expect (c.f. today's revelations from Harry & Meghan) that there was much speculation at that time about what colour of skin their offspring might proudly exhibit ...]

My legs have been slowly descending back in to Africa (the land of our ultimate origins) for years now.
[Probably due to too much imbibing of the Devil's Buttermilk!]


As a homage to Geneva, a city open and welcoming to the oppressed, Les Freres Papinot have released a new product (a strong dark beer) to celebrate BLM.
Long-life to Liberty!
https://calvinus.ch/en/our-beers/noire/
[Goodness knows how he got that face tan.
 The only time I visited the city I couldn't even see the fountains, let alone the mountains!
 So, after John KNOX's old church slammed their doors, I amused myself with exploring the souterains ...]

Such followed the death by drowning in the lake of a slave who was trying to escape from humiliating display in the City's market in 1556.
From the cathedral pulpit, CALVIN launched a vibrant call to make Geneva the world emblem of tolerance and respect for human dignity.

"Post Tenebras, Lux!"    (Trans: "After the Darkness, Light!")
[Slogan of The Rennaissance & The Reformation(s).]

"Post Tenebras, Dignitas".     (Trans: "After the Darkness, Dignity!")
[Slogan of CALVIN (?), Les Freres Papinot  (and BLM sympathizers now?).]

BRILLIANT!
[Wish I'd been at the Product Marketing brainstorming meeting ...]

----
I talked to someone once who'd worked alongside the big TT fellow.

He was reported as having two overriding characteristics in the field:
  a) Profligacy with Saxon swear words;
  b) Spectacular rift valley clearing technique, using aerosol particles.

Other diggers vied to ensure that he kept his head in the sand and that they were situate upwind from him when he talked thru' his other major orifice!

Capt. Jock

P.S. There is as fine photo of Dalway's Bawn on P.15 in Ernie SCOTT's erudite A5-sized book on the local history:

 "Ballynure, History and Happenings in the village over the past Four Hundred Years"
 Ernest McAlister SCOTT
 Shanway Press  2004 (Reprinted 2008). pp. 119


The caption there also refers to the Bellaghy Bawn, now a museum and tribute center to the poet Seamus HEANEY.
[Bellaghy is a townland lying roughly mid-way between Ballymena & Ballymoney, just West of the main road, within the parish of Rasharkin. Interesting to learn that the head of one of the London merchant companies (JONES) was based in Co. Antrim (such county, supposedly, NOT being part of the Plantation).]

P.P.S.

"The foundations of a castle built by John DALWAY, a cornet under Walter Devereux in Essex's army, are to be seen in Castletown, about 1 mile north east of Ballynure.
...
The castle was erected about 1609."


Ref: p.33
The Ordnance Survey Memoirs of Ireland. Vol.32
PARISHES OF COUNTY ANTRIM XII
1832~3, 1835~40
Ballynure and District

The Institute of Irish Studies
The Queen's University of Belfast

Pub. 1995
ISBN 0-85389-552-X PPI


Sounds just like a place that the Belfast Naturalist Field Club (?) might have visited on their sojourns. Joseph BIGGAR and William Fee McKINNEY were enthusiastic members. Check out Linenhall Library, Ulster Museum, newspapers ...?

Was it a (modest) castle or a fortified cattle enclosure (aka "bawn") ?

Did DALWAY not get around to finishing off the walls with whitewash as well as DOBBS?

[Gilby]

Thanks Capt. Jock.  I would guess the "castle" was very similar to Dalway's Bawn at the other end of the cattle trail.  It must have gone out of use fairly quickly since it seems to have disappeared by the 19thc.  I think I read somewhere (probably the OS memoirs) that there was some evidence of remains of a wall in a farmyard in Castletown.

[TheWhuttle]

Gilby,

Yep, thats right.
(vol.32 p33 as above)

Guess it was known as "DALWAY's other bawn".
[Probably to stop him being being jibed with "DALWAY ... has only got one bawn".]

-----

Perhaps I was a tad harsh on old Phil of TT (who we all love of course!).
[I was only reporting what I heard from a colleague who had worked with him.
 They, the other diggers, inspiringly thought that they performed best when he was outstanding in his (own) field.]

His accent would have fitted in well around Ballynure.
[Many of Elizabeth I's venturous captains hailed from the West Country (of England).
 Such "twang" underlies the Belfast patois to this day.
  e.g. Francis DRAKE, Walter RALEIGH & John CHICHESTER,
 then his successor, his brother Arthur CHICHESTER.
 The latter was granted extensive lands around Belfast.
 His descendants became Lords Donegall.
 Sir Francis CHICHESTER, first solo circumnavigator of the World,
 hails from this family stable, near Barnstable in Devon.

 [Official title in the peerage being "Inishowen and Fisherwick".
  This latter deriving from the SKEFFINGTON family, Lords Masserene and Ferrard,
  who'd married in to the CLOTWORTHYs at Antrim Castle.
  Lord Donegall bought their estate/mansion in Staffordshire,
  in the run up to the 1801 Union of the British/Irish Parliaments.
  In order to sit in the British Parliament you had to own a "seat" within its lands.

  The expense in buying/developing this Fisherwick holding bankrupted the Donegalls.
  Their estate office / hunting lodge at Doagh (near Ballyclare) is named after it.

  Interestingly, there is a small peninsula in Inishowen named Doagh.
  Inishowen is the large peninsula lying to the West of Lough Foyle & beyond in Co. Donegal.
  The CHICHESTERs acquired lands there after Cahir O'DOHERTY's disastrous uprising,
  becoming the largest land holders in Ireland.]

https://www.theirishstory.com/2015/03/27/nineteenth-century-landlords-of-greater-buncrana/#.YF-a3dpxeUk


 Ian Campbell Ross Jonathan SWIFT, the famous author of Gulliver's Travels,
 started his "church" career as a prebendary priest minding the cure of Kilroot
 preaching at the small (now ruined, CoI) church at Ballynure.
 His father, a lawyer, a Royalist in the Civil War, hailed from Goodrich, Herefordshire.
 He scarpered to Dublin to escape persecution, dying there just before his only son was born in late 1667.]

https://www.tcd.ie/trinitywriters/assets/pdf/Jonathan%20Swift%20Dec%2019%202015.pdf
https://en.geneastar.org/genealogy/jonathanswiftj/jonathan-swift

Capt. Jock