When did James Joseph Audley Marry?

[Rosinish]

The info. I posted only stated residence in England.......................it did not state James Joseph Audley was born in England although he may have been

Turns out he was born in England according to this:

1921

James Audley
Marital Status: Married
Age: 30
Birth Year: abt 1891
Birth Place: England
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Bertha Audley
Father Birth Place: England
Mother Birth Place: England
Year of Immigration: 1910
Racial or Tribal Origin: English
Province or Territory: Manitoba
District: Portage-La-Prairie
District Number: 33
Sub-District Number: 1
Parish of St Charles
Township Number: 10
Range Number: 2
Meridian Number: E
Municipality: Charleswood
Occupation: Labourer
Income: 400
James Audley 30
Bertha Audley 21

Has dropped the "Joseph" though 

Annie
 

[audbr]

Thanks for all your replies; I suppose I should come clean as I started the previous thread mentioned in the list of replys to my message.
All the information I have on this James Audley is:

 JAMES AUDLEY born Q3 in 1883 at West Derby. Following the Death of his parents (Thomas Audley and Catherine Golding) he emigrated to Canada as part of the ‘Home Children Scheme’. He sailed from Liverpool on the 18th September 1890, via Londonderry (19th September 1890) aboard the “SS Parisian” arriving in Montreal, Quebec, on the 27th September 1890. He sailed as part of a group of 18 Children led by a Miss M Malone as Matron. The group appears to have been known as Mrs Lacy’s party. Their destination is given as Kingston, Ontario, traveling via the Grand Trunk Railway. Of the Province of Ontario, Canada, living in an Orphanage in Kingston City, in 1891 (as James Audly). By 1901 he had been adopted by and was living with a family with the surname Brown in Wolfe Island, Frontenac, Ontario, Canada.  The records of the Sisters of Providence of St. Vincent de Paul Orphanage, indicate that; James Audley stayed at the Orphanage for a year.  Even though the name of the original foster parents is not documented he was probably adopted or fostered out in September 1891, as he does not appear in the list “Inmates in Residence October 1st, 1891” in the Register of Orphans 1879-1912. It appears he was returned to the House of Providence Orphanage, Kingston, Ontario, in late 1895 or early 1896 and re-placed with a new Guardian (Mrs. P.J. Brown of Wolfe Island) in January 1896. In the 1911 Census of Canada (The Census record notes that James was Born in March 1889 in England?) he was still living as a Farmer with his adopted family of Peter Brown, a Farmer and his Wife Annie, with their 2 Sons, who were all originally from Ireland, and living at Frontenac, Wolfe Island, Ontario, Canada.

In all references to him prior to and including 1911 he is referred to as James Audley.

My problem is why in his war records, and death records, does his name become James Joseph Audley and birth year appear to change from 1883 to 1890. He also appears to move 300Km from Wolfe Island to Montreal

I am currently reviewing the information on this person and I am currently concerned that we are dealing with two people and not one, and this is the reason for my initial message in this thread
Any help in resolving my problem is appreciated
Regards
Brian

[audbr]

Hi Ammack,
I was writing my last post at the same time as you were writing your last reply.

As you will see from my previous post my concern is the name 'Joseph'

From the information in the 1921 census he is recorded as being 9 years older than his wife, whereas if he was born in 1883 he would be 16 years older than his wife.

I wonder if he deliberately reduced his and did not tell his wife; but where did the Joseph come from?
Regards
Brian

[Rosinish]

One thing about the name..............I have ancestors/relatives who's birth certs. don't have a "middle" name.
They were however Catholic too who later had "middle" names.

My assumption is that the "saint's" name chosen when they were "confirmed" (as catholics) was then introduced as part of their identity 

This seems to be the same person & like many people ages are changed to suit the moment/circumstances whether to appear younger/older depending on the need at the time 

I think even ELVIS changed his age to join the US army 

Annie

[Rosinish]

1911
Name:   James Audley
Gender:   Male
Marital Status:   Single
Age:   22
Birth Date:   Mar 1889
Birth Place:   England
Relation to Head of House:   Adopted
Immigration Year:   1897
Race or Tribe:   English
Province:   Ontario
District:   Frontenac
District Number:   69
Sub-District:   51 - Wolfe Island
Sub-District Number:   51
Neighbors:   View others on page

Household Members:   Name   Age
Peter Brown
47
Anna Brown
49
James Brown
15
Thomas Brown
13
James Audley
22


To be honest, your..........

I suppose I should come clean as I started the previous thread

Should really have been an apology as we (many of us) spent many hrs researching info. which you already had from other's on here.

That time & effort could have been used on someone who had "NO" info. & needed help 

Annie

[audbr]

Please Accept my apologies if I have upset anybody and have wasted anybodies time.
In my defence  I would say that the title of my message did say ' When did James Joseph Audley Marry?'

Perhaps in hindsight I should have been more specific with my questions and perhaps they should have been:

• Are there indexes or list of Marriages that took place in Ontario and Quebec?
  How comprehensive are those indexes for the period 1900 to 1920
  Do any of those indexes or lists contain the names James Joseph Audley or James Audley or spelling variation

If I can buy his marriage certificate and if he gives his fathers name or his age that would help tie in all the information I have about him or blow it all apart.

Next Time I put a message om Roots chat I will endeavour to be comprehensive and list all the information I have and try and be more specific about the information I am after
REgards
Brian

[Rosinish]

Thank you Brian for your apology which is welcomed & appreciated 

We do get frustrated when we are searching old info. already found 

If you can understand that we all need a wider picture to get to the "root"......i.e. other info. which we can relate to a query to tie-in hence the reason for our thorough research.

We endeavour to do our best to get to the root but it is also helpful if we know what ground has already been covered on the path there as it saves so much valuable time.

I often put queries in different areas if my relatives emigrated to help across the water to tie-in their info. e.g. (Lanark, Scotland) & (Ontario, Canada) with a link to both so they know I'm researching from both areas. People in Canada who have my relatives would probably be seeking info. from the Lanark, Scotland side i.e. it can easily be tied together.

Don't be put off by our annoyance as we love the challenges as long as we are not supplying info. already found 

Annie

[polarbear]

The marriage......

From the Drouin Collection (indexed as Andley)

In Montreal at Calvin Presbyterian Church
On 17 July 1917

James Joseph Audley, Bachelor, son of Mr Audley and his wife Annie deceased
to
Bertha Florence Mary Bromley, Spinster and Minor with parental consent, daughter of the late Herbert Lewis Bromley and his wife Mary Richardson
By Banns
Both parties signed
Witnesses were F A Knowles and N Shaw

I suspect that the mother Annie referred to is perhaps Mrs Brown, adoptive mother? There being no first name for the father, perhaps James didn't know or remember? He was very young when Thomas and Catherine died.

It appears that the Wm Ford living at 81 Cazalais ca. 1917 may have been/became the second husband of Bertha's mother. William and Florence are living next door to James and Bertha in the 1921 census. Bertha's siblings are down as stepsons to William.

I have not been able to find a marriage for William and Florence at this point.

Herbert Lewis Bromley appears to have married Florence Mary Richardson in 1898 (FreeBMD; both names on the page). Herbert Lewis Bromley died in Montreal in 1912 and is buried in Mount Royal Cemetery (Find a Grave).

PB

[audbr]

Thanks polarbear; that is exactly the information I was after.

It seems that all the information I have of him from 1911 and earlier refer to him as James Audley and all the information about him from his marriage in 1917 and later as refer to him as James Joseph Audley.  It looks as though I am dealing with one person here. (but not 100% sure)

Interestingly his parents were married in a Church of England Church; he appears to have become recorded as Roman Catholic, in orphanage records, and married in a Presbyterian Church.
It is ufortunate that the record was indexed as Andley, it is not the first time I have seen Audley records indexed as Andley, I will try and remember to add that fact to my next message

Many thanks, polarbear for the information
Regards
Brian