Author Topic: were they illagitamate  (Read 7855 times)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: were they illagitamate
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 28 February 15 15:55 GMT (UK) »
The father of an illegitimate child could be listed on the birth certificate- but the father would have had to appear with the mother to register the child.
Not in 1840 or in 1848 which is what the question was about.

Prior to circa 1850 the putative father could be named on a birth certificate without attending to register the birth.

The safest assumption is no father's name was given to the registrar. That could be because the infant was a bastard or it could simply be the person registering the birth did not know the father's name.

Guy,

I'm reading the question to be why the birth was not registered as "illegitimate"  ??? which has nothing to do with "putative" father.
Regardless who the father was if born out of wedlock still constituted the "illegitimate" tag.

Was it possibly to do with how the Registrar felt.............whether to include the word "illegitimate" ??? ..........interesting :-\

Annie.
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline oldhippyone

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Re: were they illagitamate
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 28 February 15 15:59 GMT (UK) »
Yes interesting particularly when the mother had 7 children in total  with no named father and only 2 survived and mother married in 1851

Offline Rosinish

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Re: were they illagitamate
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 28 February 15 16:02 GMT (UK) »
Yes interesting particularly when the mother had 7 children in total  with no named father and only 2 survived and mother married in 1851

Maybe the registrar was the father  ???   :o
Sorry..............couldn't resist  ;D

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline KGarrad

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Re: were they illagitamate
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 28 February 15 16:12 GMT (UK) »
I don't think I have ever seen a Birth Certificate with the word "illegitimate" on it? :-\

Parish Register entries, Yes!
But never on a certificate?! ;D
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Offline stanmapstone

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Re: were they illagitamate
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 28 February 15 16:21 GMT (UK) »
Refers to England & Wales The word illegitimate would never be entered on a birth certificate, only the details required by the registration acts.

The instructions for Registration Act of 1874 state:
"The putative father of an illegitimate child cannot be required as father to give information respecting the birth. The name, surname and occupation of the putative father of an illegitimate child must not be entered except at the joint request of the father and mother; in which case both the father and mother must sign the entry as informants" The Act came into force on 1st January 1875. Between 1837 and 1874 if the mother informed a registrar of an illegitimate child's birth and also stated a father's name, the registrar could record him as the father, although he may not have actually been the father.

on the http://home.clara.net/dixons/Index.htm site it says "By about 1850 the situation had been clarified and the instructions read quite clearly "No putative father is to be allowed to sign an entry in the character of "Father" ". I can find no other source for this statement, or where the instructions came from.

Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Rosinish

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Re: were they illagitamate
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 28 February 15 17:46 GMT (UK) »
I don't think I have ever seen a Birth Certificate with the word "illegitimate" on it? :-\

Parish Register entries, Yes!
But never on a certificate?! ;D

So,

What have I purchased (signed by the Registrar) which states "Statutory Births" ???

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline BumbleB

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Re: were they illagitamate
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 28 February 15 18:07 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps KGarrad and I have only looked at England and Wales birth certificates - where the term "illegitimate" is not used on birth certificates. Having no associations with Scotland, I (and possibly we) would have no knowledge of their entries.  ;D ;D
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
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Offline Craclyn

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Re: were they illagitamate
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 28 February 15 18:28 GMT (UK) »
I have illegitimate being documented on records for my Scottish ancestors, but it does not appear on any of the English certificates I have. It does appear on some baptismal records and in some cases as a comment on the mother's morals.
Crackett, Cracket, Webb, Turner, Henderson, Murray, Carr, Stavers, Thornton, Oliver, Davis, Hall, Anderson, Atknin, Austin, Bainbridge, Beach, Bullman, Charlton, Chator, Corbett, Corsall, Coxon, Davis, Dinnin, Dow, Farside, Fitton, Garden, Geddes, Gowans, Harmsworth, Hedderweek, Heron, Hedley, Hunter, Ironside, Jameson, Johnson, Laidler, Leck, Mason, Miller, Milne, Nesbitt, Newton, Parkinson, Piery, Prudow, Reay, Reed, Read, Reid, Robinson, Ruddiman, Smith, Tait, Thompson, Watson, Wilson, Youn

Offline BumbleB

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Re: were they illagitamate
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 28 February 15 18:32 GMT (UK) »
I have illegitimate being documented on records for my Scottish ancestors, but it does not appear on any of the English certificates I have. It does appear on some baptismal records and in some cases as a comment on the mother's morals.

Yes., I'd agree on that as far as English certificates are concerned.
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY