John William Moor married to Isabella Sturrock

[Andyw65]

Hi Andy

Don't worry about attaching a copy of the cert.  I suspect you might breach some copyright rule if you did!  If you could just give me the date of the marriage I will take it from there.

The parish church of Tynemouth Priory is Holy Saviour's, as Trini says so we are on track with that.

Christine

Hi Christine

Ooops - just as well that the file was too big, but will remember that one for the future!

The date of the marriage was 11 October 1887.  I hope your search is easy and fruitful on my behalf.

Thank you once again

Andy

[c-side]

It's in my book ready for Wednesday - let's see what the vicar has written.

Christine

[Andyw65]

Thanks Christine - it'll be fascinating (though I hope not frustrating!) to find out

Andy

[c-side]

Hi Andy,

Alas, the vicar was in agreement with the registrar - both fathers shown as George with occupation listed as Cartman.  I must admit that when you see both names, one under the other, it looks seriously coincidental.

I think you are going to have to think a bit laterally now.  Where were they both in 1881 and with what parents.  If John was an orphan then he is likely to be with family so did John senior have a brother called George?  Adoption was very informal then so living with a family as their son would make him their son - at least in their eyes.

How do you know that John William Moor the mariner is the correct John William Moor - they are very common names.  Perhaps Isabella married a different  one with a father called George.

One question answered creates at least three more 

Christine

[Andyw65]

Morning Christine

I can't thank you enough for checking this out for me, even though it wasn't the hoped for outcome   However, even negative outcomes ensures that I can pursue the correct line of research.

So, it's back to the drawing board with information that I know, as you say - think laterally, and make a few assumptions.  I have my grandma's birth certificate that shows John William and Isabella Sturrock as her parents, but I suppose it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they either got married elsewhere, or didn't get married at all.

So it's back to Ancestry for me.

Thank you once again, you have been very kind and very helpful.

Andrea

[WolfieSmith]

Andrea,

Looks like after Isabella died, John remarried to a widow Annie Thompson. John William Moor and Annie Thompson, Tynemouth, June qtr 1908. They can be found easily in 1911 on Ancestry with joint family. Do you have that cert, to see who he gives as his father?

Alan.

[Andyw65]

Thanks Alan - I never thought of pursuing his second marriage.

Andy

[WolfieSmith]

The JWM from 1871 census is living with an aunt and family in 1881.

8 Dene Terrace, North Shields,
Jane Johnson, wid, 48,
John W.Moore, Nephew, 14, Joiner, b. North Shields,
+ several Johnson children.

Its definitely the same person, as the Johnson family are living next door to the Moor family in South St. in 1871.

Jane appears to be Johns mothers sister.

John Moor married Margaret Ann Harper, 30 Oct 1861, Tynemouth. Fathers Andrew Moor and William Harper.

Thomas Johnson married Jane Harper, 17 Oct 1853, Tynemouth. Fathers James Johnson and William Harper.

So question is whether this JWM is the same one who married Isabella Sturrock and later Annie Thompson. Does the marriage to Isabella give any other clues, who is the second witness? Any address for the groom? Failing that, the marriage cert to Annie Thompson may confirm his father as John, in which case the earlier father George was perhaps a mistake. If he says his father is George again, then maybe the JWM from 1871 and 81 is the wrong one.

Alan.

[Andyw65]

Alan - all this additional information is brilliant - thank you so much.  I was at the point of banging my head against that 'brick wall'.  I spent all yesterday morning searching Moors for an illusive aunt or uncle who could have taken JW and his sister Elizabeth in when their mother died.  I dismissed the Harper element as being an impossible task because of not knowing married names.  The idea that they could have lived next door never entered my head.

This exercise made me doubt all my other research into my grandma's family, so I also spent a lot of time yesterday starting from scratch with the facts that I know.  I can honestly say that I can only be positive about records going back to the 1891 census that shows JW, Isabella and my grandma aged one year old.  The fact that my grandma was called Margaret Ann makes me believe that she was named for JW's mother, which could reinforce that I have the right JW, but my JW was definitely an engineer in the merchant navy.

I have to confess to taking some of my information from other people's public family trees and it all matches from JW and Isabella downwards as I remember all my great aunts and their names.  So, as you say my next step is to get Isabella's death certificate to confirm her date and place of birth.  JW's second marriage certificate to see how his father is described - as you suggested Alan.

When can I be 100% sure that I have the right John William Moor(e) and Isabella Sturrock (there appears to be quite a few Isabella Sturrocks but only one married a John William Moor).

Once again, I can't thank you and Christine for trying to help me unravel this mystery.

Andrea

PS I've now found the records that you referred me to Alan and have them safely filed in my 'Unsolved Mystery' file.