The use of GRO in Edinburgh in doubt.

[Ruskie]

Any change of use for the building should, must be in keeping with the existing structure of the building and its value to the nation as a historic building.
Cheers
Guy

Of course, but the mere fact of changing it's purpose must entail substantial alterations, particularly internally, no matter whose hoops they jump through to gain the necessary permissions.

(I think it reasonable, if expansion is required, to have some records in other city centre locations or even slightly further from the centre with easy accessibility or shuttle bus running between buildings.)

[Guy Etchells]

It depend what you mean by 'easy access'.

I entirely concur that it is desirable to have all the records stored under one roof, but that's not the most important thing. The most important thing is that access to the records should be provided in a place that is easy for customers to get to.

At the moment I can have any document I like brought to me in a convenient city centre location which happens to be in an inspiring and historic building. In the same building I can also access a huge range of digitised information that doesn't involve physical storage on the spot. That is what I call 'easy access'.

Thomas Thomson House, being far more difficult for customers to get to, can never offer 'easy access', no matter what systems are introduced for handling the material.

Why do you say Thomas Thomson House is not easy to get to?

That surely depends what mode of transport is being used and where the customers are coming from.

Compared to Princess Street Sighthill has easier access for those coming by road being close to the Edinburgh bypass (A720).
It is on Bus routes from the city centre running every 6 minutes.
It is also close to a railway station (Edinburgh Park) though not quite as close as Register House is to Princess St station.
It is even close to Turnhouse Airport if the customers fly in.

Apart from customers who happen to live close enough to Princess Street to walk to Register House, the Sighthill location could be said to be easier to access.

In what way do you think is it far more difficult for customers to get to?

Cheers
Guy

[Forfarian]

In what way do you think is it far more difficult for customers to get to?

Because for most people it will involve taking a minimum of two modes of transport whereas they can take one at present, and if they drive it will be difficult to find parking.

At the moment, all trains, trams and most bus services take you to within a couple of minutes' walk of General Register House, and there is parking close by in the St James' Centre.

Yes, there is Edinburgh Park Station, but (stating the obvious) the only trains that stop there are the ones that happen to be using that line, so if you come from anywhere other than Glasgow Queen Street or somewhere on that route you will have to change trains. If you come from anywhere north of Edinburgh that means going to Haymarket and doubling back. And (according to Traveline) it's 7 minutes' walk from Edinburgh Park to TTH. That's a fair old distance if it's pouring rain or a blizzard.

Yes, there is a bus service, but unless you happen to live somewhere alongside those particular routes, you will have to change buses somewhere along the way, and pay double the fare of course. And (according to both Traveline and Lothian Buses web site) it is still at least 5 minutes' walk from the bus stops to TTH - still plenty of time to get soaked in bad weather.

I know lots of users of GRH (and NRH) who come into Edinburgh almost daily, by public transport, specifically to visit the National Records of Scotland and/or Scotland's People Centre, and who would find it very much more difficult to get to TTH.

It's rather ironic that the bus services that go nearest to Thomas Thomson House include some of the ones that drop you almost on the doorstep of GRH.

[Guy Etchells]

Because for most people it will involve taking a minimum of two modes of transport whereas they can take one at present, and if they drive it will be difficult to find parking.

There is on free on street parking outside the Thomas Tomson House (TTH) whereas parking at St James Centre costs £9.00 for 3 to 5 hours.
In addition it is far easier to get to TTH by car as it is on the outskirts of the city, close to the ring road (A720)junction with the M8 giving excellent road access.

At the moment, all trains, trams and most bus services take you to within a couple of minutes' walk of General Register House, and there is parking close by in the St James' Centre.

Yes, there is Edinburgh Park Station, but (stating the obvious) the only trains that stop there are the ones that happen to be using that line, so if you come from anywhere other than Glasgow Queen Street or somewhere on that route you will have to change trains. If you come from anywhere north of Edinburgh that means going to Haymarket and doubling back. And (according to Traveline) it's 7 minutes' walk from Edinburgh Park to TTH. That's a fair old distance if it's pouring rain or a blizzard.

Yes, there is a bus service, but unless you happen to live somewhere alongside those particular routes, you will have to change buses somewhere along the way, and pay double the fare of course. And (according to both Traveline and Lothian Buses web site) it is still at least 5 minutes' walk from the bus stops to TTH - still plenty of time to get soaked in bad weather.

There is a bus stop directly across the road from the gates of the TTH and the trams and trains about 5 minutes walk away. When compared with access to the National Archives at Kew, TTH is in an excellent location.  http://www.rootschat.com/links/01erk/

I know lots of users of GRH (and NRH) who come into Edinburgh almost daily, by public transport, specifically to visit the National Records of Scotland and/or Scotland's People Centre, and who would find it very much more difficult to get to TTH.

It's rather ironic that the bus services that go nearest to Thomas Thomson House include some of the ones that drop you almost on the doorstep of GRH.

We must bear in mind that the current buildings have reached capacity which is why TTH was built. The situation is going to get worse as more and more records will be stored away from Register House and a move is therefore inevitable.

Any slight inconvenience in changing buses or trains must be offset by the fact all the records will be available onsite rather than numbers of records having to be ordered from an out store prior to visiting the archive.

Cheers
Guy

[Forfarian]

There is on free on street parking outside the Thomas Tomson House (TTH)

If there are spaces available. Can you imagine the parking problems when (not 'if') say half of the people who use the Scotland's People Centre decide it's easier to drive to TTH than to go by bus or train?

In addition it is far easier to get to TTH by car as it is on the outskirts of the city, close to the ring road (A720)junction with the M8 giving excellent road access.

That depends where you are travelling from. One thing is certain; if this move is made, there will inevitably be a large increase in the proportion of users who do take their cars.

When compared with access to the National Archives at Kew, TTH is in an excellent location.

I have been sedulously avoiding mentioning that, as two blacks don't make a white. I agree wholeheartedly that getting to the National Archives at Kew is extremely inconvenient, even if you start from central London. But just because Kew is awkward to get to doesn't mean that it's all right to make the National Records of Scotland awkward to get to, let alone the Scotland's People Centre.

We must bear in mind that the current buildings have reached capacity which is why TTH was built. The situation is going to get worse as more and more records will be stored away from Register House and a move is therefore inevitable.

I don't query the need for material to be stored outside the city centre. It's the public access that needs to be central. It works fine at the moment. And the largest number of users is probably those using the Scotland's People Centre, which doesn't generally involve producing actual documents as it's all digitised.

Any slight inconvenience in changing buses or trains must be offset by the fact all the records will be available onsite rather than numbers of records having to be ordered from an out store prior to visiting the archive.

The negigible extra inconvenience of ordering documents from my home computer in advance of my visit instead of from the computer in the search room on arrival is completely offset by being able to view them in a convenient city centre location which is, moreover, in an inspiring building. In addition, it means that the documents are ready and waiting for me when I arrive, so I can get straight to work, rather than ordering them on arrival and having to wait for them to be fetched from a remote part of the building.

We are going to have to agree to disagree about this

[tidybooks]

And when you need a break you can pop next-door to the Guildford Arms, one of the most unspoilt and atmospheric pubs in the centre of Edinburgh (pray God it doesn't belong to the council).

Harry

......or can I suggest the Cafe Royal almost next door to the Guildford. I got the tram from Ingliston Park and Ride about a month ago to St Andrews Square on route to GRO, and had a lovely meal and refreshment, too.

[hdw]

And when you need a break you can pop next-door to the Guildford Arms, one of the most unspoilt and atmospheric pubs in the centre of Edinburgh (pray God it doesn't belong to the council).

Harry

......or can I suggest the Cafe Royal almost next door to the Guildford. I got the tram from Ingliston Park and Ride about a month ago to St Andrews Square on route to GRO, and had a lovely meal and refreshment, too.

Yes, you would be looking at Sighthill for a very long time before you saw anything resembling the Cafe Royal. Not an oyster in sight.

Harry

[Guy Etchells]

I must admit even looking at the changed Edinburgh from the place I knew in the late 60s brought back memories of the dives I mean flats I lived in during my time there.
Rose Street, Broughton Place, Arthur Street, etc. the only street that hasn't changed is Abercrombie Place.
Oh well that's life.

Sorry to go off topic with my trip in the past.
Cheers
Guy

PS changed spelling new to knew

[hdw]

I must admit even looking at the changed Edinburgh from the place I new in the late 60s brought back memories of the dives I mean flats I lived in during my time there.
Rose Street, Broughton Place, Arthur Street, etc. the only street that hasn't changed is Abercrombie Place.
Oh well that's life.

Sorry to go off topic with my trip in the past.
Cheers
Guy

It's by straying off the beaten track that you come across interesting places. My wife belongs to the International Women's Club of Edinburgh and they meet in the Royal Scots club in Abercrombie Place.

Harry