Author Topic: errors on trees  (Read 18998 times)

Offline sallyyorks

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Re: errors on trees
« Reply #63 on: Tuesday 10 February 15 23:34 GMT (UK) »

It is not that I doubt your sources or what was said and recorded during these debates.
It is that this is Lord Melbourne and the 1830's. Reactionary, repressive and opposed to reforms, Whig or Tory.

Statistics, like the first modern census 1841 or civil registration, were becoming popular for government. I cannot help wonder at the motivation behind gathering them. It was a time of great social upheaval, serious unrest but of still keeping the rabble in its place. CR was convenient for enforcing the hated new poor laws ?, enforcement still ongoing in 1837

Sorry I don't understand you point.
The first modern census was surely in 1801 with the poor law unions being put in place in 1834 these unions were used as a basis for civil registration districts rather than civil registration districts being used as poor law unions.

Or are you suggesting that parliament was following suggestions of Thomas R. Malthus and his Essay on Population in an attempt to restrict population growth?

Cheers
Guy

Poster msr is right, we are off topic, so to answer briefly.

The 1834 poor law was not "in place" in 1837, in fact there was a great deal of trouble trying to get it in place.

No I wasn't suggesting a Malthus inspired plot to reduce the population, but rather a sharp taking notice of the conditions and changes of the industrial revolution and the gathering of data to cope with and understand those changes.
They did not have the slightest clue, or care actually , how the average labourer and his family lived, how could they know.
They wanted the rabble numbers neatly filed in place and as you said, protect their own "property" and that of their capitalist class "dissenter" chums?

Offline fastfusion

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Re: errors on trees
« Reply #64 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 06:39 GMT (UK) »
i am going to comment here>  on the last post words to the effect of "they didnt care and didnt know".....   well actually they did know more than they revealed.....    because of the Tithes, and if you read about the history of tithes and the trouble they caused at the period of the Corn Crash and the end of the embargo of Napoleon ,,,,,  and the trouble with the Bank of England then government did know and all concerned knew the system had to change and it was at that point the planning of the Queen Victoria regime of genealogical systems and census took place. And supposably the government has been trying to improve it ever since..
and yes the topic is trees on anc being wrong.

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: errors on trees
« Reply #65 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 07:35 GMT (UK) »
Please may I interject here.  A fascinating history lesson going on but straying quite extensively from the title of the thread. 
Not that it is for me to stop you, but when I receive notification of an update I hope to see something more related to the original post.

Sally, I fear that you and Mr Etchells may be continuing this discussion for quite some time.
No disrespect meant to anyone.



Topic slip does occur in conversations but I would suggest that does not mean the posts are straying quite extensively from the title of the thread.

The reason I say there is a relevance is because unless the researcher understands the reason for the record being recorded one does not understand the accuracy of the record.

Most researchers automatically assume that when a person posts a tree on Ancestry or other similar sites they are claiming to have researched the tree themselves, but that assumption is flawed.
Some people post trees as a fishing exercise, wanting others to add to it.
Some post a tree so that others comment on it and make corrections.
Others post because they are proud of their research achievements or their husband’s or wife’s achievements etc. the reasons are numerous.

It can therefore be seen that the person who posted the online tree may or may not be interested in replying to comments about the tree.
They may even have abandoned the tree their object completed by publishing it in public, in which case they would not even realise that others were trying to contact them.

We, as researchers should therefore try to learn the reason for the existence of any record we discover as that will show us the relevance of what we see.

Cheers
Guy

PS I am Guy or Guy Etchells, Mr. Etchells was my dad ;)

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Offline Bee

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Re: errors on trees
« Reply #66 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 09:57 GMT (UK) »
As the originator of this topic ;)

I left comments on one of the trees that contained the wrong parentage of my 3xgt grandmother and that tree seems to have disappeared.

I'm still awaiting a response from the other tree owner.

Of the trees that I'm ignoring two of them have the correct death entry in 1857 and then arising from the grave to appear on the 1881 census at the other side of the country.

I look at the online trees in the hope that I may find a snippet of information that I don't have or have not been able to find myself, though I do verify anything new that I find.

For Guy
The slightly off topic part of this thread is very illuminating

Bee
 :)
Dinsdale, Ellis, Gee, Goldsmith,Green,Hawks,Holmes,  Lacey, Longhorn, Pickersgill, Quantrill,Tuthill, Tuttle & Walker,  in E & W Yorks, Lincs, Norfolk & Suffolk. Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: errors on trees
« Reply #67 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 10:56 GMT (UK) »

For Guy
The slightly off topic part of this thread is very illuminating

Bee
 :)

Thank you, I am glad to read that.
Cheers
Guy
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http://burial-inscriptions.co.uk Tombstones & Monumental Inscriptions.

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Offline msr

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Re: errors on trees
« Reply #68 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 11:11 GMT (UK) »

Most researchers automatically assume that when a person posts a tree on Ancestry or other similar sites they are claiming to have researched the tree themselves, but that assumption is flawed.


Rather a sweeping assumption in itself. 
It is quite obvious that parts of some trees are simply copied from others.  Ancestry allows one to see the citations used, and by following the 'Ancestry Family Trees' option one can see where information has been copied from.  Sometimes that information is correct, other time very wide of the mark, and yet it seems that some people are happy to take it as gospel without continued research and validation.

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I  dont have my tree on ancestry or any other site because a] its none of anyones affair and b] how can one publish a book if the content is cut and pasted willy nilly by others, and c] it cost a lot of money to research and it was for my family to share not any strange layabouts in computer closets so if the trees on anc or anywhere are incorrect well tough for u for wanting to use them in the first place. :)

A smiley face but 'strange layabouts'  ?    Tongue in cheek?  or a slightly veiled insult?   I am undecided  :-\


Offline myluck!

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Re: errors on trees
« Reply #69 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 11:44 GMT (UK) »
I believe that I have commented on this before

If I am sure someone is mistaken I will let them know and why
It doesn't bother me if they do not respond, I get my satisfaction from letting them know

I have been corrected and appreciated it all except once when an American Lady was very insistent that my gx2 grandfather was not mine but in fact hers; too longa story to go into but quite amusing!

When looking at other's trees I also check official sources to corroborate the data

Finally I do not understand people who do not share their information; in discussion and comparison you can gain huge additional information. Only in the last week a cousin mentioned researching our grandfather's brother, she was fascinated to realise that I had quite an amount of information and she no longer had to "start from scratch".

anyway that's my view
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline majm

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Re: errors on trees
« Reply #70 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 12:17 GMT (UK) »
Topic slip does occur in conversations but I would suggest that does not mean the posts are straying quite extensively from the title of the thread.
The reason I say there is a relevance is because unless the researcher understands the reason for the record being recorded one does not understand the accuracy of the record.
Most researchers automatically assume that when a person posts a tree on Ancestry or other similar sites they are claiming to have researched the tree themselves, but that assumption is flawed.
Some people post trees as a fishing exercise, wanting others to add to it.
Some post a tree so that others comment on it and make corrections.
Others post because they are proud of their research achievements or their husband’s or wife’s achievements etc. the reasons are numerous.

It can therefore be seen that the person who posted the online tree may or may not be interested in replying to comments about the tree.
They may even have abandoned the tree their object completed by publishing it in public, in which case they would not even realise that others were trying to contact them.
We, as researchers should therefore try to learn the reason for the existence of any record we discover as that will show us the relevance of what we see.
Cheers
Guy
PS I am Guy or Guy Etchells, Mr. Etchells was my dad ;)

I am concerned.   I am based in New South Wales, Australia, and my earliest migrant family to NSW arrived back in the 1790s, and my most recent migrant family arrived towards the latter part of the 19th Century.   Back in 1810 the then administrative paperwork system was improved, new general orders issued, and all this by a Scotsman, the Governor of NSW, Lachlan Macquarie. He provided express reasons for his general orders regarding recording of baptisms, burials, marriages, musters, land grants, civil court actions, property transfers, and the like.   (He came to re-establish law and order after the Garrison forces had led a revolt against the then Governor, one William Bligh, yes, you got it, Bligh, he of the Mutiny of the Bounty fame)   

So persons researching records held by NSW State Records Office are able to clearly learn the purpose, function, objective, of the official records, basically from first settlement, with the arrival of the First Fleet 1788.   From a family history perspective surely this gives the relevance that Guy writes about.   

When any person submits any family tree chart to any organisation, be it a commercial website like Ancestry, or lodges their hand written paper based documents at a Genealogical Society or publishes their family history with public libraries obtaining the books ..... surely there's a responsibility by the reader to validate rather than to just accept the information at face value.     So, whether a tree chart is offered by the most experienced professional genealogist, or the least experienced newbie, the person reading the offering must understand that it is their responsibility to confirm/ eliminate/ leave in pending tray and that there's only a possibility there's a shared ancestor.   

I know that the significant issue is that flaws that give in depth details noted in tree charts can be very annoying.  And I am quite sure that this is compounded when the charts are uploaded to the web, so reach a much wider audience. 

If you find errors in strangers tree charts, and if you can contact those strangers, then be gentle, ask for confirmation of their research and offer to share your copies of documents you have researched yourself.   If they are not persuaded by your research, don't get hot under the collar.  But do re-check your own against theirs, and simply accept your own findings.   

If you cannot contact the submitter, accept that no-one else can either.   If the error is chronological (so buried before born, or married after death, or in a census years after burial etc) .... don't panic .... those flaws are so obvious that even non family history readers would see through the twaddle.

On the other hand, when you upload your own tree chart to a commercial website, don't link a citation unless you have inspected that specific record.   So, don't link the index entry for a birth/death/marriage reference no UNLESS you already have the actual record (either paper copy or digitised image, but not the transcription), and you can clearly see it is YOUR person of interest.

Well, there's my thoughts for the evening.   

I trust I am not being too controversial, and that I am providing 'food for thought' .

Cheers,  JM

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Offline david64

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Re: errors on trees
« Reply #71 on: Wednesday 11 February 15 17:14 GMT (UK) »
I contacted, I think, between 3 and 6 people, who had the wrong parents for an ancestor in their Ancestry tree. Only one changed it. Other replied with befuddled responses. I even quoted the sources through which I know they have the wrong connection.