Author Topic: Richard Ansell Hayter ca 1825 Berkshire  (Read 22154 times)

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Richard Ansell Hayter ca 1825 Berkshire
« Reply #54 on: Sunday 01 March 15 11:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi Josey

I can tell you that John Franklin and Hannah Ellen SMART went back to the UK sometime in the late 1850's.  [I'll post some references for this tomorrow.]

They also returned to (Christchurch) New Zealand   - don't have a precise date - but JF SMART began to appear again in NZ newspapers (supporting an election candidate) in late 1865.

And (happily) found the following, showing when they returned to the UK.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz

"Press" (Christchurch) - 16 April 1874 - page 2 - Shipping

Sailed :    APRIL 15 - "Salisbury" - ship - 1113 tons - (Capt.) CLARE - for London.
Passengers:  Mr and Mrs J.F. SMART and servant
, Mr Martin and Mr Bridges :

   ~  Lu


Online josey

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Re: Richard Ansell Hayter ca 1825 Berkshire
« Reply #55 on: Sunday 01 March 15 12:17 GMT (UK) »
Once again, thank you so much for your successful digging, Lucy2.

All is beginning to fit into place, thanks to you. You have explained the absence of J F & H E Smart from the 1871 UK census, also that Mr & Mrs Stuart are most likely to be Mr & Mrs Smart, also why no wife mentioned in John Percy's obit. William/Bill could indeed be William Smart, although he is not as such named on the rootsweb list but possibly could be the Smart child [I take your point about Richard's not naming a relationship, but from the tone of the diary he seems a rather distant & unemotional man....]  although other children under the age of 14 are not named.

So from the rootsweb page we have
Hayter, Henrietta
Hayter, Richard
Hayter, William ?Smart baby
Percy, Hannah ?Smart
Percy, John
Stuart, John   ?Smart
Stuart, William ?Smart

& the Lyttleton Times 15 Mar 1851 page as you stated above.
Mrs and Mrs STUART
Mr HAYTER
Miss HAYTER
Mr John PERCY
[So, STUART (again) ... one Mr HAYTER (William is missing) ... and no mention of a Mrs. PERCY ??? ]


Thanks again for your help.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Online josey

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Re: Richard Ansell Hayter ca 1825 Berkshire
« Reply #56 on: Sunday 01 March 15 21:45 GMT (UK) »
I found this death on www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz
1854/921   Smart   William James   4Y9M
This child would fit exactly the William James born to John Franklin & Hannah Ellen Smart in Sep 1849. Might it be worth buying the details?

In the diary, Richard mentions on Monday 6th Jan 1851 Was awake at 4 o’clock this morning by our going about & the little Infant thumping the Boards exclaiming (I can see land) which I did not believe & not feeling in the least inclined to get up however I was up at 6 bells & found it to be true as I could discern land at a very long distance. . So the 'infant' could talk - would 16 - 17 months be a bit to young to be able to say 'I can see land'? My sons were both late speakers so it seems impossible to me  :D

I note William Smart was a builder. Richard's father was an eminent builder & surveyor, so that may be how the families met.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline Lucy2

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Re: Richard Ansell Hayter ca 1825 Berkshire
« Reply #57 on: Monday 02 March 15 00:10 GMT (UK) »
I found this death on www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz
1854/921   Smart   William James   4Y9M
This child would fit exactly the William James born to John Franklin & Hannah Ellen Smart in Sep 1849. Might it be worth buying the details?


I do believe you've found the child.  ;)

And from the Christchurch Cemeteries database, this listing.

Barbadoes Street*, Cemetery
Plot 1 - Block (unknown)

William James SMART -- aged 5 years

[*  Early records for this particular cemetery are a bit sketchy and above, is the only info given. ]

However by tinkering with dates on the NZBDM site, we are able to deduce "specific dates for events".

This poor wee chap died on 24 June 1854.

[Information given on early NZ death certificates is minimal, so at best you might get the name (and possibly address) of the informant (who may be related to the deceased ... or could just be the details of the undertaker who was registering the death.) ]

Couldn't see a death notice for the child.

    ~   Lu


Online josey

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Re: Richard Ansell Hayter ca 1825 Berkshire
« Reply #58 on: Monday 02 March 15 07:35 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, yes, I think we've identified the 'child' & thank you for finding his burial.

On Tuesday 10th Dec 1850 Richard wrote:
Henrietta could not make herself agreeable with the mess & John & her were always quarrelling therefore we all thought it would be the best way to give her the fifth part of the provisions & let her provide for herself which has been done . I understand 'the mess' to mean the cooking/kitchen/eating arrangements.

So my opinion is that the party of 5 were Richard Ansell Hayter, Henrietta Hayter [Richard's sister], William Smart, John Franklin Smart [William's brother] & Hannah Ellen Smart nee Hayter [John's wife & Richard's sister] + William James Smart, not included in the passenger lists as about 16 months old.

I am well on the way with the transcription & the museum replied to my request for the details of its donation - by a Mrs Bastion in 1983. I wonder if she is a descendant of Edwin R W Hayter? Or of the Irons family Edwin emigrated with? Or even someone who found it in a 2nd hand shop?

Josey

ADDED: There are Irons marriages on www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz
1906/3918 Charles Irons [could be Seffried dropped his first name] to Sabina Fahey
1915/10686 Wilfred Edward Irons to Myra Beatrice Philpott
1930/5866 Male Irons to Female Basstian - Male Irons could be a child of the 1906 marriage & Basstian very similar to Bastion  ???

LATER: The only Irons children father Charles mother Sabina 1906 - 1914 are M 1907, F 1908, M 1910, M 1913, none of whom same forename as the Irons who married in 1930.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline spades

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Re: Richard Ansell Hayter ca 1825 Berkshire
« Reply #59 on: Monday 02 March 15 07:54 GMT (UK) »
Congratulations on finding answers to your mystery, Josey. :) :) 8)

Spades
ELLERKER - Beverley ERY ENG
HEALEY - IRL?
MURDOCH - Wigtownshire SCT, Otago and Westland NZ
PALING - Nottinghamshire ENG
RILEY - Flamborough; Cottingham; South Dalton ERY, Manitoba CAN, & London ENG
STURTON - Arnold, Nottinghamshire ENG
SUTTRON - All, NRY & DUR ENG
TAYLOR - London ENG
TYLER - London ENG
TERNAN/TIERNAN - Dublin IRL

Online josey

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Re: Richard Ansell Hayter ca 1825 Berkshire
« Reply #60 on: Monday 02 March 15 08:04 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, spades, and all due to help some very helpful rootschatters  :D especially Lucy2.
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline rpoole

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Re: Richard Ansell Hayter ca 1825 Berkshire
« Reply #61 on: Wednesday 11 March 15 10:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi Josey
Are you still after the burial details for Richard Ansell Hayter?   If so, he died 22 Oct 1907 and was buried 25 Oct 1907 in the Sydenham Cemetery, Christchurch, NZ, aged 81, Block 8C plot 46.
He was listed under the spelling HEYTER, variations of surnames is the age old nemesis of Geni's.  ???
Cheers, Aussie Bob

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Re: Richard Ansell Hayter ca 1825 Berkshire
« Reply #62 on: Thursday 12 March 15 07:23 GMT (UK) »
Thank you very much Aussie Bob, that rounds off the story nicely.

The transcription is complete & has been linked to by the kind owner of this page
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzbound/ih.htm
along with the corrections to the passenger list & notes about life after 1851 for the Hayter/Smart party [and Ann Freckingham who committed suicide on the voyage - I did a little family history for her]. 
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON