birth/baptism records for Francis Gorham born c 1815/16 london

[copper john]

Hi Lizdb & Rosie, I have asked myself all the questions you ask and followed up where I can,we really need to find Francis birth details including his mother's or we keep going around in circles.
I would like to view any 1841 London census including these Gorham's for clues?, we have both at separate addresses in the 1851 census and only a few streets apart for work at Kensington Palace over the road from High St Kensington. I visited there in 2007 I live in Western Australia.
Francis'wife Harriet father was a solicitor living in Bond St and would have offered advice on how to minimise any taxes owing (probate) Francis died at 41yrs -my understanding is that the family-James Francis and Harriet all new of his illness that would lead to his early death which was the same year as James but later on, all my info is on these postings; everything else is conjecture.
cheers copper john

[rosie99]

Francis'wife Harriet father was a solicitor living in Bond St and would have offered advice on how to minimise any taxes owing (probate) Francis died at 41yrs -my understanding is that the family-James Francis and Harriet all new of his illness that would lead to his early death which was the same year as James but later on, all my info is on these postings

Francis died intestate so he clearly wasn't well advised.    It looks as though his estate was only £20

What did he die of

To view 1841 census you need a subscription to one of the ppv sites or your local library may have free access to them. 

You may never find them in 1841 as parts of the census were missing for Kensington and other areas of London
http://www.rootschat.com/links/019g8/

[lizdb]

I too wondered if Francis was already ill and not expected to live.And yet he himself never made a Will. There are Letters of Administration for Harriett to administer Francis's estate.  Maybe it was negligable, as he had not inherited from his father.

I have been looking in 1841, but no success yet.

(Red writing, Rosie, but seems we are thinking along the same lines. I'll post anyway)

[copper john]

Hi Lizdb/Rosie99, re any estate for James/Francis, we know Francis had 7 children-my dad told me on a few occasions (he died 2007 at 94yrs) that the family had property where Hendon aerodrome now stands(a row of terrace houses) and recalled going there when young, apparently this property was squandered by one of Francis sons after he died so this may be the reason the estate was protected when Francis died?. Death caused by "Congestion of the brain"?this from his death certificate 1856.
Another scenario I had not considered: did James father Francis to a wife prior to Maria or perhaps a illegitimate birth to a loved one who may have died in childbirth?, if the latter then we can forget Maria as the mother of Francis?.I appeal to your London knowledge of websites who may be able to uncover these other possibilities-if they exist at all- any clues please? I appreciate you both trying to help me. No results either from the Hendon people!. Cheers copper john.

[rosie99]

Another scenario I had not considered: did James father Francis to a wife prior to Maria or perhaps a illegitimate birth to a loved one who may have died in childbirth?, i

James was a bachelor according to his marriage to Maria so if Francis was his son he was illegitimate

[lizdb]

Not sure what you mean about the estate being protected when Francis died.  Francis left no Will, so made no attempts to protect his estate, small though it was.
However, his father left the residue of his estate to Francis's wife - unusual as you would expect it to be left to Francis's children (ie his grandchildren) even if it was left in trust for them if they were minors. Unusual to leave it all straight to a daughter in law, who could in theory squander it, or remarry and her new husband spend it or leave it to his family, and therefore the direct line would miss out.

If you are saying there was property that in time went to Franciss children ,then looking for Harriets Will may prove interesting. Unlikely to give us clues about Francis's beginnings, but you never know what Wills will throw up till you read them!

[lizdb]

Harriet died in 1887 it seems. And she left no will either. There are Letters of Admin, for a very small estate.

If one of the children did squander the estate, it was never actually his estate to squander, but that of his grandfather then passed to his mother!

But, I would take family stories with a large pinch of salt. Often there is small element of truth, but more often than not it is embellished, altered, applied to the wrong person etc etc!

[rosie99]

I am assuming you already have this 
https://discoveringclocks.wordpress.com/2013/10/01/james-gorham-1789-1856-a-kensington-clockmaker/

I think Francis was insolvent by 1853 so probably why James left his estate to Francis's wife

Daily News and The Morning post of November 22nd 1853 both have

Insolvent debtors court, Portugal Street
at 11 before Mr Commissioner Murphy -
Bail: James Croft.
Original Prisoners: James Fry, Francis Cooper, John Wilson, Francis Gorham
Small Debts: Stretton v Abbott