Sophia Holford born about 1822 in Addlestone or Chertsey- help please.

[Duodecem]

Thank you Rosie-that record may be "my" Sophia. The name is certainly spelled Helford on the original so it could easily be Holford, misspelled. The year and county of birth both fit and there don't seem to have been many Sophias around then.
I haven't found any records for Robert Holford on FreeBMD so I presume he died before 1837. Martha may be his widow or an aunt of Sophia's.
So-I now have Sophia, her father Robert, as well as Thomas and also possibly Martha-but I'm not sure of the relationship of the last 2 with Sophia. I haven't found Martha on any other census or a death yet.
It's very slow but a picture is starting to emerge

[Duodecem]

I keep coming back to your post 

One for the backburner
There is an 1841 census entry H0107/ Piece   1065 Bk3 f   34 page15 in Newington, Lambeth

Martha Helford 50 Ind means bn in county (Surrey)
Sophia Helford 20 bn in County

Ancestry have transcribed it as Helfand

I thought I would post an update on this -not that I've got any further. I found an 1845 marriage in Newington for Jane Sophia Helford so I think this must be the Sophia who is with Martha in '41.

If "my" Sophia was a servant I suspect that she was in service and her details were misrecorded on the `1841 census.

I can't find any record for Robert Holford other than Sophia's marriage record. I've tried various spellings but he's still hiding!
I would have thought that a cattle dealer would be established in the area but he doesn't show up on any Surrey records, neither does Thomas. Sophia's poor mother is still anonymous too.
Possibly Sophia was born in Surrey but her family were resident elsewhere. There are other Holfords but they are scattered and don't seem to have a link to either Surrey or to Berkshire. (Sophia married in New Windsor and lived in Clewer and in Windsor.)

Any suggestions gratefully received! Jan   

[deegordon]

Hi I am connected to this family through my great grandmother Anna Marie Morton the daughter of Sophia Morton nee Holford. Anna married an Alfred Cox and his son William Cox was my grandfather.
My brother researched this side of the family but couldn't find the Holfords and neither can I. I have a copy of the church records at the time of Sophia marriage to John Morton on 22nd of October 1844 and it clearly states Holford as the surname. John Morton was a Pork Butcher in Peascod Street Windsor. I have traced Sophia through the census records as a Morton until her death in 1913. She lived with members of the Cox family at various times after the death of John in 1863. It may be a very bad entry or a deliberate falsification of the name as i can find no trace of her except as a possible servant in Brighton in 1941. There are no records of her fathers death which would have been registered after 1837. Something is definitely not right and i have given up as its a needle in haystack and no clues. Good luck i shall watch the pages

[Duodecem]

Hello Dee, nice to meet you, my great grandmother was Rosina Sophia Morton, older sister of Anne  Maria, which makes us cousins of some sort.
I agree the Holfords are elusive but I think the names are correct. I bought Sophia's marriage certificate which clearly gives her name and that of her father-Robert Holford, cattle dealer. The marriage was witnessed by Thomas Holford, presumably a brother or uncle of Sophia's.
It could be "our" Sophia in Brighthelmstone in 1841 and I think it probably is. There is a tick in the born in county column but that could very easily be an error.
On the other hand, as a servant in 1841 she may not be on the census with her proper names correctly spelled. There could easily have been an error with name, age or place of birth. She could have worked for the kind of household that called all its servants "Mary" or she could have been missed off the record altogether.
The occupation fits-a cattle dealer's daughter may easily have met the son of a butcher. Or Sophia may have been in service in Windsor -which isn't far from Chertsey, and met John there.
Unfortunately I don't know anything else about Robert. The name is relatively common and since we don't know whether he continued to live in Chertsey where Sophia was born or if he lived and died elsewhere he's impossible to track down. He may have died before compulsory registration in 1837. Sadly the marriage certificate only gives the fathers' names and doesn't say whether they are still alive.
If i find out any more I'll let you know, best wishes Jan

[deegordon]

Hi Jan thank you for your reply and it looks as if we are of a similar generation. I have a burning passion to solve the mysteries that surround our forefathers. Far better than any cross word puzzle and probably like you i have a had quite a few mysteries to solve. My wife was Dee I am Gordon and sadly she is no longer with me. Her family was stuffed full of mysteries and nuts to crack. However she had little or no interest as she said these were all dead people whats the point. So I let her get on with her pursuits as she was a wonderful seamstress, lace maker etc. Nice to make your acquaintance. I have a couple of avenues but more in desperation than hope. Best Regards Gordon

[Duodecem]

Good to meet you Gordon, I'm sorry to hear about your wife and sorry I used the wrong name. Like you I enjoy solving the puzzles and knowing a bit about the history of my ancestors.
 The Mortons are from my father's side of the family. I've found his family hard to trace because they moved around a bit, generally in the home counties and London, so I'm not always sure if I've got the correct people.
My mother's family were all from Norfolk and Suffolk and a lot of them  were connected to the sea in some way, so they've been easier to find.
I have got a tree on Ancestry and I could send you a link if you are interested. Maybe we could compare notes.
Best wishes, Jan

[Paul104]

I hope you don’t mind my joining this discussion.  I too have been completely puzzled by Sophia Holford.  Like Gordon, I am related to Annie Maria Cox (Morton). 

Just to muddy the waters a little more, I sent for Annie’s birth certificate.  The date of birth is given as 4th November 1848, the father is recorded as John William Morton and the mother’s maiden name is given as Rolfe.  There are clearly inconsistencies here with what else is known about the family.  First, the father’s name.  That this Sophia Morton and daughter Anne (or Annie) is the one we seek seems confirmed as the address given on the birth form is 16 South Place and this is the same address recorded for the family in the 1851 census, so why is John’s middle name given as William when in 1861, the head of the same household is recorded as John T Morton?  Then there is the mother’s maiden name, Rolfe, not Holford.  I really don’t know what to think about this.  I wonder, is John’s middle name given on the marriage certificate?  Is the name Holford clearly written (I would imagine it would be as it surely appears three times)?  Do you think the registrar for the birth has made not just one but two mistakes?  Any ideas please.

[Duodecem]

Hello Paul, Nice to "meet" a distant cousin! I'm sorry I didn't see this before.
I think the family in 1841,with Robert, a cattle dealer, daughter Sophia and son Thomas, all near Windsor seem likely candidates for being Sophia's family and the surname Holford being written in error instead of Rolfe.
I've sent you a PM but I've just found another piece of circumstantial evidence.
I was looking at Robert Rolfes on ancestry and found a marriage record in Chertsey, Surrey for a marriage record in 1845 for Benjamin Rolfe, a soldier, father Robert Rolfe. (it's rather spoiled by this Robert being a labourer but it's possibly another error or a change of occupation.)
Sophia always gave her place of birth as Chertsey or nearby Addlestone. I can only find Chertsey baptisms for Benjamin in 1820 and Eliza Rolfe in 1822, parents Robert and Mary Rolfe. There are other Rolfe records in Chertsey so It's definitely a Chertsey surname.

[Paul104]

So to sum up the state of play at the moment for anyone else who is following this topic.  All the children of John Morton and Sophia were registered with mother's maiden name given as Rolfe.  It therefore appears that the marriage certificate naming her as Sophia Holford is wrong.  If we assume that then the rest of the certificate falls into place; father Robert a cattle dealer, and witness Thomas, who appears to be Sophia's brother (see post by janfurness above).  The family of Robert Rolf (sic) is recorded in the 1841 census with Robert, his wife Ann, and three children, Sophia (21), Thomas (15) and James (six months old).  They lived in the hamlet of Dedworth, less than two miles away from Morton's butcher's shop.  Robert, Ann and Thomas are on the next census record, by then living in Mount Pleasant which seems to identify with Beaumont Cottages, Clewer Fields, Windsor.  That would put them just a couple of hundred yards away from where Sophia lived with John.

Robert Rolfe gives his birthplace as Shalford, Buckinghamshire in 1851, but there does not appear to be any such place.  There is, however, a Shalford in Surrey, not far from Guildford.  Ann, Robert's wife, gives her birthplace as Uxbridge.  Sophia gives her birthplace as Addlestone/Chertsey pretty well consistently apart from the entry in 1911 where it is given as Aylesbury.  The hunt is now on for Sophia's birth record.