Author Topic: Unrecorded VC holder.  (Read 31898 times)

Offline barryd

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Re: Unrecorded VC holder.
« Reply #81 on: Thursday 21 January 16 03:52 GMT (UK) »
Speaking for myself much less than one percent of all my replies to RootsChat are relatives of mine.

Offline whiteout7

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Re: Unrecorded VC holder.
« Reply #82 on: Thursday 21 January 16 05:44 GMT (UK) »
Clasp and roses explanaion

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=680833.0

"Added to the 1914 Star:

Clasp

5th Aug.-22nd Nov. 1914
Often referred to as Clasp and Roses. Instituted in 1919 (Army Order Number 361 published 16 October 1919) and awarded to those who had operated within range of enemy mobile artillery during the above period.[5] When the ribbon bar was worn alone, recipients of the clasp to the medal wore a small silver rosette on the ribbon bar.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1914_Star"

So he most certainly was in danger between these dates 5th Aug.-22nd Nov. 1914
 
*Right on his medal card it says 5/11/14 as his entry date into his first theatre of war.

"The clasp turns the 1914 Star into a ‘Mons Star’. Soldiers operating in the rear received the 1914 Star without the clasp and roses. The next of kin of men who had died did not receive the roses."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mons

It is a gallantry award in its own way "awarded to those who had operated within range of enemy mobile artillery", sounds like a V.C if your were a wet behind the ears reporter working because you were to young to be sent to fight. I don't think he ever qualified for a V.C. We all know V.C.s are given for 'bravery under fire'. Perhaps there was no difference thought of in the first four months of WW1 by the public, even if the military awarded V.Cs in this battle to other celebrated men!

I doubt it was a story made up by Gunner S.E.Fagg, the man is a hero. They marched for miles in retreat under fire, wounded and ordered to return to their enforcement lines nearer Paris. They were also vastly out numbered by the German Army.

The Battle of Mons helped save Paris from invasion in WW1 and was one of Britains first battles.  At the time of the newspaper article it would have been big news.

A video account of the battle of Mons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGtfUwW3ZFI

This man did 12 years service, that is a long time.

Another comment none of the records viewed on the Kent History Forum show his wounds within the dates of the battle of Mons but that doesn't mean he was not wounded at that battle. People seem to think army record keeping is infaliable! I wonder if there are undiscovered hospital records in Britain to be found yet.
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline Tra La La

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Re: Unrecorded VC holder.
« Reply #83 on: Thursday 21 January 16 07:34 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps a little off topic, but it is very difficult to alter incorrect information added by others to the various Wiki pages.  The information for Ernest SYKES VC contained a number of errors, including the date of his heroic deeds which SHOULD read Easter Monday the 9th of April 1917, and his date of birth which SHOULD read the 14th of April 1885.  The errors continue to be printed in new (2016) books, and feature on Ancestry, Find My Past and the VC typed list on the website of The National Archives.  I am encouraged that the Governments VC Pavement project does accept that his heroic deeds DID happen on the 9th, not the 19th of April 1917.  Sadly that is only one arm of the government.  Just for the record, and according to the war diaries, the battalion was away from the front on the 19th of April 1917.  So 99 years on, there is no common will to get this right.  He was aware of the error when he gave press interviews to the Huddersfield Examiner and also to the Manchester Evening News, hence he used the phrase "it was Easter Monday, the 9th of April, and it was snowing ....". any suggestions on how to get through to Ancestry/FindMyPast/TNA would be welcomed.

Offline whiteout7

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Re: Unrecorded VC holder.
« Reply #84 on: Thursday 21 January 16 08:10 GMT (UK) »
I can understand what you are saying Tra La La but maybe Ernest SYKES VC needs his own topic as 'his heroic deeds DID happen on the 9th, not the 19th of April 1917' have nothing to do with Stewart Fagg and The Battle of Mons.


Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)


Offline whiteout7

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Re: Unrecorded VC holder.
« Reply #85 on: Thursday 21 January 16 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Another question, have you looked at Stewart Ernest Fagg in the 1911 census for England?
Could he have recievd a foreign VC? One that could be stripped?
The IGI says he was in Gibralta
 
He was a professional soldier in the RGA?
Wemyss/Crombie/Laing/Blyth (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

Offline Flattybasher9

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Re: Unrecorded VC holder.
« Reply #86 on: Thursday 21 January 16 10:45 GMT (UK) »
Jut curious, but what is "a foreign VC"?

Regards


Malky

Offline Tra La La

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Re: Unrecorded VC holder.
« Reply #87 on: Thursday 21 January 16 10:57 GMT (UK) »
Point taken. I was taking the opportunity to tap into those with an interest in holders of the VC.  I did check my 2013 published Methuen three volume, and Fagg and its variations was not listed.
Tra La La

Offline bogeyman

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Re: Unrecorded VC holder.
« Reply #88 on: Thursday 21 January 16 14:28 GMT (UK) »
Stewart Ernest Fagg, a bricklayer,enlisted at Dover into the Royal Artillery (Royal Garrison Artillery) on the 26th September 1907. His enlistment to September 1908 was in the Uk then he served four years in Gibraltar. A very interesting account of Stewart Ernest Fagg, can be found in Bygone Kent Volume 36 No 3

Offline bogeyman

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Re: Unrecorded VC holder.
« Reply #89 on: Thursday 21 January 16 14:42 GMT (UK) »
There was also a lot of false claims regarding been awarded the VC during the First World War. They were usually part of a scam in which they might get better treated to free board and lodgings or financial gain.