my gt grandfather pieter joch appels born about 1850 holland germany hungary

[whiteout7]

This lady:
Sarah Apples on on the 1901 census, living in Yorkshire, East Riding, Sculcoates aged 18 born 1883. She might (Just might) be the sister of Peter Appels born 1882 (or 1880)

Sarah Appell died in 1947 aged 64 at Yorkshire, Leeds (she was born 1883)

Her death certificate could be pretty interesting, it might give more evidence that helps you.

[whiteout7]

There is a researcher for Appels in Amsterdam, I think you can sign up to Geneanet for a free profile so you can talk to him. Maybe he could help, with Pieter Joch Appels and Peter Appels birth in Amsterdam in 1882.

http://en.geneanet.org/profil/jansys/Jan-Sijstermans

[hazel lyon]

the sarah apples born 1883 in sculcotes hull is my gt grandmother sarah jane donison ,married 1900 and was preg with first child who was born 1902,peter john appels was at sea when the census was taken,by the next census 1911 they called themselves john and jane as the children were called sarah and peter,marion ,lena and others, later rosy appels, sarah jane goes on to remarry fletcher 2months after death of peter john in 1918 at sea ,after moving to grimsby she remarries again and dies called davidson,the older peter joch appels who I am looking for born between 1850-1860,I havnt seen or been able to get the marrage cert 1900 between pj appels and sarah j donison may show the trade of peter joch appels,I have presumed he was a seaman but that may give a clue where he was born.will phone to try to get

[Annette7]

Going back to opening post - surely Pieter Joch Appels in Hull, 1918 and the Peter John Appels who died 1918 are actually the same person?  Is the Hull 1918 entry from a street directory?   

For information purposes, Sculcoates contained/s a large portion of Hull Town.

1. You say you haven't got a copy of Peter Appels and Sarah Jane's marriage certificate how do you know a) his father was named Pieter Joch Appels and (b) that he was born 1880.   Have you just surmised this?

2. You can't assume that 'Appels' was the correct spelling of his surname (even though there are some Netherland BMD's in this name).  He married as Peter (anglicised version of Pieter) Appels.   'Appels' might just have been an anglicised version of his surname.  Other possibilities are Appel and Abels.   In fact, regarding the latter:

Johannes Pieter Abels b.4/12/1878 Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands, son of Johannes Pieter Abels and Jacoba Sijmons.

Your grandfather married Sarah Jane as plain Peter Appels but in 1911 (as you've explained) called himself John (bc.1879) and he was Peter J. when he died.   

With the Christian names reversed and a birth ca.1879 the birth entry in name of Abels could well be your man.

3. Can you give us the exact wording of what is on the wartime roll of honour?  I find it difficult to understand it stating his father lived in Warwick Street, Hull when he appears to have been the only one of his family to come to England pre 1911, and there is no death for his father here.  Could Warwick Street have been his own address rather than fathers?

In lieu of anything else coming to light I do think the birth of Johannes Pieter Abels 4/12/1878  Amsterdam (father with same name) is something to consider.

Annette

[hazel lyon]

I only have the de ruvigny roll of honer ,my gt grandf born amsterdam may 1881 peter john apples ,spelt apells on his marrage cert,states he was educated in holland so his english might not have clear.lost at sea  20 feb 1917

[Annette7]

Having read the entry through (although states lost at sea 20/2/1917 searching for record of ship reveals it was lost 20/2/1918) I think 44 Warwick St. Hull was indeed his own address as that is the address given for his wife and children.

Believe his father (and other family members) had remained in Amsterdam.

Sorry I can't help further.

Annette

[seaweed]

Just a little on the Peter Appels lost at sea 20/Feb/1918

According to the Deaths at Sea returns for April 1918. He was a Fireman aboard the Hull registered vessel HARROGATE official number 132261 when she foundered 80 miles west by south of the Manstaf light (off the coast of Norway) whilst on a voyage Hull for Bergen with a cargo of Coke.
His birthplace was given as Ijmuiden, age 36 and he resided at 64 Warwick Street, Hull.
I have attached a photograph of HARROGATE.
For what its worth. I agree that  Pieter Joch Appels in Hull, 1918 and the Peter John Appels who died 1918 were the same person. I believe the person mentioned in the Crew Agreements from Hull History Archive is also the same man. You could try looking at the original crew agreements to ascertain his age. This would prove or otherwise my theory.

[hazel lyon]

thought i had found the family in amsterdam,they are in the right place at the right time  but they had 3daughters cant see a son

[hazel lyon]

all found thank you the name was abels,they came from coburg in prussia