Author Topic: There's a painting of my grandad out there somewhere - how to find it?  (Read 1168 times)

Offline LDW

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There's a painting of my grandad out there somewhere - how to find it?
« on: Thursday 20 November 14 15:32 GMT (UK) »
According to his diary, John Russell RA (1745-1806) painted a pastel portrait of Rev John Dunkin in 1769. Writing in 1894, George C Williamson records this, and says that the painting is 'missing'.

So perhaps it's on somebody's wall somewhere. Other than watching 'Antiques Roadshow' every week, does anyone have any idea how it might be traced?

The National Portrait Gallery has records of British portraits in public and private collections around the world, mostly derived from exhibitions or sale rooms. A helpful email from the NPG confirms that 'a portrait would have been a valuable possession', suggesting that it might still survive, but says that they have no record of it.

Maybe the picture has lost its attribution; as the NPG says "identities and attributions can slip and what was once recognised as a specific ancestor may much later be known only as 'portrait of an unknown man'". An online search for Russell portraits of unknown sitters has turned up nothing that looks likely.

In the NPG collection is a Russell portrait of 1769 (in oils) of William Dodd, which gives us his style at the time. John Dunkin's obituary in The European Magazine and London Review, Jan 1809, says that he died aged 82; by that count he would have been 42 when the portrait was made (though a baptism record of Sep 1730 suggests that he may have been a year or two younger).

The minister of the Jamaica Row meeting at which John Dunkin preached was Rev John Townsend. There is an engraving of Townsend in his memoirs (artist unknown), from which we may perhaps infer the style of dress that Dunkin would have adopted.

http://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/library-rnid/2012/09/07/rev-john-townsend-1757-1826-founder-of-the-london-asylum/

So we have an artist, a date, a stylistic reference point, an age for the sitter, and a clue as to his mode of dress.

Just no picture...

Any thoughts?
Wedd, Cotter, Nash, Hays, Stockbridge (Cambs/Herts), Pine (Kent), Chaplin (Cambs/Herts)
Frost (Cornwall), Carr.

Offline Flattybasher9

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Re: There's a painting of my grandad out there somewhere - how to find it?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 20 November 14 16:46 GMT (UK) »
It's listed as "missing" in the "pastellists" as well.

Regards

Malky

Offline philipsearching

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Re: There's a painting of my grandad out there somewhere - how to find it?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 20 November 14 17:25 GMT (UK) »
A very, very, very long shot:

Would it be possible to find out where the portrait went immediately after it was painted?  If it could be tracked forward into the 19th century (through wills, for example) there is a possibility it could appear in the background of a photograph of a later owner.

Good hunting!
Philip
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

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Offline GrahamSimons

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Re: There's a painting of my grandad out there somewhere - how to find it?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 20 November 14 17:26 GMT (UK) »
This website took me to my great-great-grandad's portrait:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/
Simons Barrett Jaffray Waugh Langdale Heugh Meade Garnsey Evans Vazie Mountcure Glascodine Parish Peard Smart Dobbie Sinclair....
in Stirlingshire, Roxburghshire; Bucks; Devon; Somerset; Northumberland; Carmarthenshire; Glamorgan


Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: There's a painting of my grandad out there somewhere - how to find it?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 20 November 14 18:01 GMT (UK) »
Are there any biographies of the Artist that may give a clue? Or any academics studying the Artist, who may have information?
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)

Offline LDW

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Re: There's a painting of my grandad out there somewhere - how to find it?
« Reply #5 on: Friday 21 November 14 10:57 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for these good ideas. I will go back and check his voluminous will and see if there's any mention, and hunt for biographers, PhDs etc. Some material has come down to me through the family, but no mention of the portrait.

I fear there is also another possible fate for it. His wife wrote in her diary:

"December 6th, 1793
It is some time since I remarked the dealing of Providence to me and mine; little did I think, when I closed the last book, that I should begin this with remarks on so solemn and so trying a providence.
On the 7th of November, after ten in the evening, we were called to behold our premises all in flames; they burnt furiously for a few hours, and then were totally destroyed. By this trying visitation we lost many hundreds, besides the heavy loss of the profits of more than a twelvemonth's trade. When first I beheld the affecting sight I was almost overwhelmed for a short time; at length the Lord broke in upon my soul with some sweet and suitable portions of Scripture which enabled me to believe it was and should be all well; for though a dark and trying dispensation, I humbly believe it was among the all things that work together for good. He hath taken but what he lent..."

I have assumed that this meant their commercial premises, not their home, but it could have been the lot I suppose.
Wedd, Cotter, Nash, Hays, Stockbridge (Cambs/Herts), Pine (Kent), Chaplin (Cambs/Herts)
Frost (Cornwall), Carr.

Offline lizdb

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Re: There's a painting of my grandad out there somewhere - how to find it?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 21 November 14 12:08 GMT (UK) »
Other than watching 'Antiques Roadshow' every week, does anyone have any idea how it might be traced?


You never know. . . . ..

Many many years ago whilst researching my Edmonds ancestors, my brother and I discovered that very very very distantly related (common ancestor was back in the 1700s if I remember rightly) was a Nellie Hepburn Edmunds (that was her "pen name", she was born Ellen if Iremember rightly) who was a painter of Miniatures. I did a lot of research on her, discovered she had a painting displayed in the Victoria and Albert Museum, plus they owned a second one that was not on show (they were very helpful and we had a lot of correspondence). I also discovered several lists of all the paintings she did and, like you, I wondered what had happened to them all. 

My brother said, in jest, one day maybe they will turn up on Antiques Roadshow.!

Well, many many years later, somehow we made contact (or he with us) with a descendent of her sister (Nellie never married) who was researching his family history. He was particularly interested in Nellie Hepburn because he now owned quite a lot of her portraits! 
We met up with this gentleman and spent a happy afternoon in the village where mutual ancestors had lived, then compared research notes over lunch. He showed us photos of all the other paintings that he owned.

And then he said he had recently taken them all to Antiques Roadshow!! He gave us the date it was being broadcast, and sure enough, as we had jested about all those years ago, we did see her other paintings on Antiques Roadshow!!
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ThrelfallYorky

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Re: There's a painting of my grandad out there somewhere - how to find it?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 21 November 14 12:11 GMT (UK) »
What a wonderful coincidence. At least that'd be better then destruction. And accidental destruction must be better than the fate of a Sutherland portrait of Winston Churchill, which apparently his wife disliked so much that she had it deliberately burned!
Threlfall (Southport), Isherwood (lancs & Canada), Newbould + Topliss(Derby), Keating & Cummins (Ireland + lancs), Fisher, Strong& Casson (all Cumberland) & Downie & Bowie, Linlithgow area Scotland . Also interested in Leigh& Burrows,(Lancashire) Griffiths (Shropshire & lancs), Leaver (Lancs/Yorks) & Anderson(Cumberland and very elusive)