Author Topic: Searching for Mary Lengurill  (Read 23044 times)

Offline avm228

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Re: Searching for Mary Lengurill
« Reply #36 on: Wednesday 19 November 14 23:09 GMT (UK) »
Naphtha is a hydrocarbon produced as a byproduct from the distillation/refining of crude oil, coal tar, and possibly also natural gas (not sure).

It could have had various uses, as a solvent, a fuel for lamps or an accelerant for lighting fires etc.

I'd have thought a rectifier would have been involved in the distillation/refining process but again not sure.  You may be able to find relevant info online.

Added: found this which may help http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline lizdb

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Re: Searching for Mary Lengurill
« Reply #37 on: Thursday 20 November 14 09:24 GMT (UK) »


Not necessarily. There's a possibility he moved jobs within the refinery. Being in charge of a stationary engine would have been a move upwards from labourer (which is what the vast majority of sugarbakers were).

Union Place and Free Church Row were, I think, both off Scotland Road, and so may have both been within easy walking distance of the sugarhouse.

(Will add Christian and his two lodgers to the database asap).

Thank you Sugarbakers, that is interesting.

Just goes to show, in Family History you really need to keep on your toes and never jump to what you think are obvious conclusions! In my mind, when I saw sugar baker, I thought immediately along the lines of one of my ancestors who was a confectioner and baker - he was working in a little bakers shop making fancy sugary things that were then sold alongside the bread. When I saw engine driver I thought initially of trains (!) and then of heavy industry.
But, when put in the context of working in a sugar refinery - yes progression from general labourer, to sugar baker (baking the sugar! not baking fancy sweet things using sugar!!), to engine driver (driving the machinery used in the refining process!) makes so much sense!
A lesson for us all.
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sugarbakers

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Re: Searching for Mary Lengurill
« Reply #38 on: Thursday 20 November 14 13:58 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, lizdb, avm228 and Clarijo.

What is a sugar baker?  Why would he come over to the UK to do such work?  Was Germany in recession, and why Liverpool?


Two or three snips from the Introduction in my book ...

" 'Sugarbaker' was the term used by the migrant German workers to describe themselves, though it was often used to describe other nationalities of refinery workers. The British sugar refining industry, by the very nature of the supply of its raw material from overseas, was primarily located in London, Liverpool, Greenock and Bristol, with German labourers predominating in London, sharing the load with the Irish in Liverpool, but being few in Greenock and Bristol. Many other cities and towns had refineries but only Hull, as an entry point for migrants, employed many German workers."

"As the 17th century European sugar industry was dominated by Amsterdam and Hamburg, the name was derived from the Dutch "suikerbakker" and the German "Zuckerbäcker", and it was variously written as sugar baker, sugar-baker, or sugarbaker."

"The vast majority of sugarbakers, escaping the lack of employment on the land and the consequent poverty, were unskilled labourers; stoking fires, unloading raw sugar, ladling boiling syrup, pouring bullocks’ blood, grinding animal charcoal, cleaning filters, filling moulds with hot sugar, loading ovens, etc. Skilled men were few, usually only the sugar boiler who ran the process and managed the men. In the larger refineries there would have been more than one boiler, but the "secrets" of the process were kept amongst "the few" in the early years. As mechanisation grew, more skilled men were required, but skilled in the management and maintenance of steam engines and specialist machinery rather than how sugar was refined."

(Sugarbakers - from Sweat to Sweetness, by Bryan Mawer, Anglo-German FHS, 2011. ISBN 978-09547632-7-5.)

In the 19thC there was serious unemployment within the German farming communities, particularly in Lower Saxony, north of Hanover. Young men were either recruited by sugarhouse managers or simply came to Britain seeking work. If they were not put up in the refinery men's room, they would likely lodge with fellow German refinery workers.

Liverpool ship owners soon became involved in the slave trade, sugar being the commodity they brought back to Britain on the third leg of their voyages. The first refinery was opened in the city about 1670 by a partnership led by a London refiner. The trade grew rapidly, firstly in what we now know as the city centre, and then moved north to the area around Vauxhall Road and Scotland Road. At the time Christian Fischer was there ,1861 and 1871, there were about a dozen refineries in Liverpool.

The living conditions for the labouring classes in Liverpool at that time was very poor ... courts, cellars, slums, etc.. For details try to find the excellent Liverpool - Our City, Our Heritage, by Freddy O'Connor, Bluecoat Press, 1990.

And lastly (sorry I could go on for a very long time  ;D), for a graphic description of working conditions in a London sugarhouse c1876 go to  www.mawer.clara.net/greenwood.html .

Far more detail on my website (see below).

Bryan.

Almeroth, Germany (probably Hessen). Mawer, Softley, Johnson, Lancaster, Tatum, Bucknall (E.Yorks, Nfk, Lincs)

Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers ... www.sugarbakers.co.uk ...
57,000+ database entries, 270+ fatalities, 220+ fires, history, maps, directory, sales, blog, book, 500+ wills, etc.

WDYTYA magazine July 2017

Offline Clarijo

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Re: Searching for Mary Lengurill
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 20 November 14 22:42 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all SO much.  I have spent some time today reading your site, Bryan, and I have to say that I am entirely knocked out. My poor old relatives! What a hideous life.  I am so Home Counties that I make Penelope Keith sound like Arthur Mullard, and to think that my downtrodden old great great grandfather was slaving away in a Liverpool (of all places!) hell-hole makes me cry.  I have also taken note that the German sugarbakers clustered together.  How strange life is.  I read every day, it seems, horrible stories of Migrants living in ghastly housing. Up until now, I have thought Whatever, but it strikes me that we haven't really moved on.  Crikey, I am doing some soul-searching.  Sorry to be boring.


Offline avm228

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Re: Searching for Mary Lengurill
« Reply #40 on: Thursday 20 November 14 23:16 GMT (UK) »
Absolutely fascinating, I must say.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline sugarbakers

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Re: Searching for Mary Lengurill
« Reply #41 on: Friday 21 November 14 14:47 GMT (UK) »
I'm sorry, Clarijo, but I'm afraid it doesn't get any better !!

Christian & Mary Fischer ...

** 1861  1 Union Place

Union Place was the middle of three courts (Bush Pl, Union Pl, Currie Pl) that the enumerator visited between Currie St and Ennerdale St. They don't show on the 1864 map and I wonder if they had been pulled down, having occupied part of a cleared site on the south side of Currie St.

This link will describe court dwellings - http://www.discover-liverpool.com/24/section.aspx/3

Currie St was almost a continuation of Gildart's Gardens, and this snip from "Squalid Liverpool (1883)", much quoted in 'Liverpool - Our City, Our Heritage', by Freddy O'Connor, Bluecoat Press, 1990, will describe the neighbourhood ...

"We will begin at the furthest end, and inspect some of the cross streets leading out of Bevington Bush. One of these was Gildart's Gardens, a garden in which luxuriant crops of vice, disease and suffering are growing. It is narrow, filthy and ruinous. The class of house to be found here does not differ from that abounding in squalid Liverpool. Cellar, parlour, bedroom, attick make up the residences in Gildart's Gardens.The property seems to be in a condition more dangerous than usual. Many of the walls can hardly stand much longer, and some day will tumble with a crash. Take Court No.6 for instance, a filthy little entry, where the houses have sunk many inches out of the perpendicular. At the end of this vile den there is a shippon and a steaming midden. ..."

** 1871  6 Free Church Row

This would appear to have been an improvement on Union Place. A terrace of six houses, I think in Wilbraham Place (not a court), and adjacent to the church.


Both locations on Google Maps -
Union Place ... enter Ennerdale St, and Union Place was on the green park immediately to the south of it.
Wilbraham Place is still there, about 500 yds north on the other side of Scotland Road.

Bryan
Almeroth, Germany (probably Hessen). Mawer, Softley, Johnson, Lancaster, Tatum, Bucknall (E.Yorks, Nfk, Lincs)

Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers ... www.sugarbakers.co.uk ...
57,000+ database entries, 270+ fatalities, 220+ fires, history, maps, directory, sales, blog, book, 500+ wills, etc.

WDYTYA magazine July 2017

Offline Clarijo

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Re: Searching for Mary Lengurill
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 22 November 14 10:28 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so very much for this fascinating insight. My poor old ancestors. It amazes me that I am here at all. I will definitely try to get a copy of the book you recommend. It is high time I made a visit to Liverpool. Again, many thanks.

Offline ailbhe

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Re: Searching for Mary Lengurill
« Reply #43 on: Friday 23 January 15 19:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I have been researching the Langrells in Ireland for years.  There were several Mary Jane's and several John's. Somewhere along the way I did find a Gibraltar Langrell. I will look through what I have and see if I can find anything of interest  to  you. 

Offline LENGURILL

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Re: Searching for Mary Lengurill
« Reply #44 on: Tuesday 10 March 15 10:21 GMT (UK) »
MY NAME IS LESLIE CARL FISHER..I AM A DESCENDANT OF WILLIAM CHRISTIAN AND MARY JANE LENGURILL.  I TOO HAVE BEEN SEARCHING MANY YEARS THE FISHER FAMILY HISTORY.I WAS BORN IN LIVERPOOL ENGLAND,MY FATHER WAS HENRY FISHER,MY GRANDFATHER WAS NAMED WILLIAM CHRISTIAN FISHER....I SAW A POST BY A LADY CALLED "CLARIJO" WHO WAS ALSO SEARCHING FOR MARY JANE LENGURILL.    AS I HAVE A BOX OF PAPERS RELATING TO HER SEARCH,I WOULD LIKE TO CONTACT HER TO SEE IF I CAN HELP...I THINK THAT WE ARE RELATED AFTER READING HER POST.. I LIVE IN SYDNEY AUSTRALIA.IF ANY ONE COULD HELP ME CONTACT"CLARIJO I WOULD HELP US BOTH IN THIS FAMILY SEARCH. REGARDS LESLIE.