Author Topic: Green Carpenter and De Lille and Jury families London  (Read 2690 times)

Offline tumblong

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Green Carpenter and De Lille and Jury families London
« on: Wednesday 19 November 14 04:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi I am looking for anybody who is doing research into the above families. The Greens lived for many years in the Tower Hamlets area, often working as wheelwrights/millwrights. The Carpenters settled in abt 1880s and came from Effingham. The Green family married into the Jury family in 1841 and there is also meant to be a ? link with the Horatio Nelson family somewhere at this point or possibly one gen above. My greatgrandfather was Cornelius Green (b Portsea Hampshire), his father was Leopold Miles Green (wife Jane Jury) b Stepney and his father was Leopold Miles Green b Stepney. My great grandmother was Emily Green (nee Carpenter). Her brother was Charles (d 27/1/28), her sister Alice and her parents John (d 25/1/1898) and Caroline (nee Spier) dying on 8/7/99. The John Carpenter was a carpenter and they lived in the Wandsworth area, his forebears came from Effingham.
Her sister Alice married a John De Lille who served as the US consulate in Bristol in the late 1880s.
Her one child Dorothy was apparently an "actress" and married a Bertie Coleman Crump a "director", he was the director of the Lyric Opera House Hammersmith 1915-16 before he went bankrupt and it went on to better things than being a music hall! I think they had two boys in Wandsworth but have lost track of the family after this.

All of this information has only recently been discovered by our family. Unfortunately my grandfather was completely tight lipped about his family and my mother in South Africa never knew anything about them. Many decades on she is delighted to find some roots at last!

I also have a huge favour to ask anyone who happens to be going to the West Norwood Cemetery to photograph graves as we would love to see anything from those that might remain and unfortunately as I am in Australia there is not much chance of visiting.


The information we have on the graves from my grandfather's documents (when he visited the cemetery and paid for upkeep on some of the graves in the 50s-60s) is as follows.
Green Ena d 9/2/1922 and Green Emily d 23/9/1943 are I think in the same grave 36005 sq 43. He has marked on the note that it is the second tier from the road. He says this grave is 9 inches from Green 35907 and 4 ft east of Green 35360. I believe one of the two Greens here would be Cornelius who died abt Feb  1922 after a 1907 divorce from Emily. I am not sure who the other is. Also buried at West Norwood is Emily Green (nee Carpenter's) sister Alice De Lille and her husband John. He died13/1/1890 and she died in 5/10/1927?.
The information my grandfather gave for this burial is plot 23682 sq 101 Delille, 2/9 west of Eugenie Waite 19514, 8th tier from Doctors Road.
 My grandfather lists his mother's brother Charles as dying on 27/1/28 and her parents Caroline (nee Spier) dying on 8/7/99 and John dying on 25/1/1898. It is possible but not certain they may also be in Norwood.


Any help at all would be incredibly gratefully received and I'm happy to reciprocate with anything I can do from Canberra!
Best wishes Melissa

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Green Carpenter and De Lille and Jury families London
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 20 November 14 08:51 GMT (UK) »
Hello, and welcome to RootsChat!

If you haven't already done so, a good way to make surname connections with other members is to enter your surname interests in the Surname Interests Table (SIT), and to check there whether others are researching these names. 

This can be found at http://surname.rootschat.com/ , there is a link to it under "Your Tools" at the bottom of each Rootschat page.

The more people who enter their surnames, the more chance there will be of making a connection!

In the meantime, I will move this thread to the London board for local help.   ;)

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ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jorose

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Re: Green Carpenter and De Lille and Jury families London
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 20 November 14 12:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,
Not related, but I can see the two boys to Bertie and Dorothy and their deaths:

John D(ouglas) De L Crump:
(named for John Douglas De Lille, presumably)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVZ8-V2CQ
Charles F(rederick) C(oleman?) Crump:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVCB-DKWT

But not having much luck figuring out what happened to their parents.

Alice died 1928 in Wandsworth (http://www.freebmd.org.uk shows her as De Lill[eo]), aged 70.
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Offline avm228

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Re: Green Carpenter and De Lille and Jury families London
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 20 November 14 13:44 GMT (UK) »
This isn't what you're looking for I know, but Alice Carpenter's husband John Douglas Delille seems to have had a few strings to his bow.

When he married Alice on 29/10/1887 he was a journalist - the same occupation as his father Henry Alfred Delille. 

He was still a journalist when their first? daughter Winifred was baptised on the day of her birth, 17/4/1889.  Sadly she died soon afterwards.

He was also a published author - his novel Canon Lucifer was reviewed in The Graphic on 23/4/1887.  The review was rather scathing, suggesting the author ought to learn "to moderate his prejudices, to restrain his delight in the nauseous, and to eschew such words as 'inimity' and 'reglementary'".

He appears to have had more success as a playwright; in the spring of 1890 a play entitled "In the Queen's Name: A Sensational Drama of London Life" co-written by him together with a pseudonymous William Trevor, toured successfully in England and was apparently set to tour in America.

Perhaps Dorothy's dramatic talents were inherited from her late father.

Do you know why he died so young? He was "in his 28th year" according to the newspaper notices, but aged 29 in the West Norwood burial register.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)


Offline jorose

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Re: Green Carpenter and De Lille and Jury families London
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 20 November 14 14:19 GMT (UK) »
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn84024546/1890-11-16/ed-1/seq-9/ocr/
 - doesn't give more info on his cause of death but interesting in that it names his mother and some of his background (educated in England and France).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_Logan
 - mentions his death of a "cold", also uses the spelling for his middle name "Douglass".
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Offline Feral566

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Re: Green Carpenter and De Lille and Jury families London
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 15 December 20 21:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I'm new to this but I'm a descendant of Henry Carpenter, John Carpenter's older brother, born 1817 in Effingham. I don't think I have anything new for you but I just thought I'd post and say "Hi". So nice to find someone else researching the same. I've only recently added the De Lille's to my tree. If I can help in any way I'll try. I'm in the UK.

Offline wickedwenchdee

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Re: Green Carpenter and De Lille and Jury families London
« Reply #6 on: Friday 01 July 22 23:04 BST (UK) »
Hello there. I'm just digging into my Husbands (Gordon) family history and after him agreeing to a DNA test we have finally found out who his Grandfather was ( Gordons Mothers birth cert had a fathers name but it wasn't the person who her Mom was married too.....!!!) Anyway, His Grandfather was a Thomas McGee born 1885, who married Dorothy De Lille (Crump) in 1938. Unfortunately Thomas Died in 1939.

I know it's a while since you first posted but please don't hesitate to get in touch.

Denise x

Offline tumblong

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Re: Green Carpenter and De Lille and Jury families London
« Reply #7 on: Friday 09 September 22 07:51 BST (UK) »
Thank you all so much for your help, sorry I haven't been on for a while. The news of her marriage makes total sense. I had wondered about that. Nice also to see somebody is interested in the Carpenter clan. Please let me know if I can be of any help.

Denise I have been searching for any record of a 38 marriage and/or what happened afterwards...Can you help with any info on where they married etc. I just seem to be coming up blank.
Best wishes, Melissa