Marriage 1816 Thomas Ralph and Catherine ? Wolverhampton

[keyboard86]

Hi again, how do you know Thomas had a son John b c 1816/20 if so where, is John on any census?

Keyboard86

[Mary Jane Tape]

Hi Keyboard
The only confirmation I have that there is a John Ralph is on several marriage certificates.

He doesn't appear in any census returns (there is a John in 1851 but it is not the correct one).

Emma Wright nee Ralph, William (my grt grt grandfather), Rosanna all have John, Boatman as their father.

I can't find Emma at all apart from her marriage.

[keyboard86]

  OK tell us what you know of Rosanna and William eg births/census?

EDIT on same page Sept qtr 1857 Dudley 6c 181

Emma Ralph
Rosanna Ralph
Thomas Wright
Charles Lloyd
Keyboard86

[Mary Jane Tape]

•   Emma Ralph born about 1835 married Thomas Wright on 10 August 1857 at St Martins, Tipton, Staffs. Fathers: John Ralph, Boatman and Thomas Wright, Boatman Witnesses: John Henry Fisher and Elizabeth Edwards. Thomas Wright was born about 1835 in Staffordshire.

•   Rosanna Ralph born about 1839 .  Married Charles Lloyd on 10 Aug 1857 at St Martins, Tipton, Staffs. Fathers: John Ralph, Boatman and John Lloyd, Boatman.
  Witnesses: Thomas Ralph and Mary Ann Ralph

•   WILLIAM RALPH BORN 1842 IN OXFORD (according to census 1891)
Married JANE WAGSTAFF 4 November 1865 at St Mark’s, Tipton, Staffs. Fathers: John Ralph, Boatman and James Wagstaff. Witnesses: John Hodgkiss and Martha.  This is my grt grt grandfather.

[keyboard86]

HI again, if William is a Boatman then in 1861 aged 19 b Oxfordshire he is with a few other Boatmen in Macclesfield Street, St Lukes London in 1861
Census ref RG09/202/42/28

Keyboard86

[keyboard86]

The 1871 shows this family:-

William Ralph 29 occ Labourer b Oxfordshire
Jane 25
James 3
William 1

This him?

Next door:-

Thomas H Ralph 30 occ Labourer b Oxfordshire
Selina? 30
Jane 7
John H 5
Adam 1
Residing at Aston Street Court, Tipton
Census ref RG10/3000/83/48

And in 1891 this family:-

Edwin Peters 35
Jane 27
Adam Rolfe 21 Step brother
Letitia 7
All born Tipton
Residing at Bear Gardens Buildings, Southwark
Census ref RG12/343/39/33

An Edwin Peters possibly married a Jane Ralph June qtr W Bromwich 6b 1102


Keyboard86

[keyboard86]

Hi again, you may wish to check out who the father is of this marriage:-

Thomas Henry ROLFE Dec qtr 1862 Dudley 6c 146 to as 1881 RG11/2865/151/45 a Letitia James
In 1881Thomas is now a Boatman on Canal
Keyboard86

[Mary Jane Tape]

Hi Keyboard
Yes, all this information tallies with my records.
William and Thomas are probably brothers and I suspect may have been born on board the canal boat while it was working in the Oxford area.  *A William was baptised on 25 Sept. 1842 at St Martin's, Tipton.

I don't know if the birth was ever registered in Oxford or elsewhere despite being a legal requirement since 1837.

Without this information it's impossible to find parents.

* I have a birth certificate for A William Ralph born 14 August 1842 to John and Elizabeth, formerly Mills.  Father is described as a Labourer and the address is Lower Green, Gornall.

The 1851 census shows this family with son William and also Thomas BUT there is an 8 year gap between the two boys, Thomas being the younger, whereas the 1881 census show Thomas as 40 and William 37.

A knotty problem.  IF we have 2 families here both having sons born in 1842 there is no real hope of separating them is there?

[LizzieL]

•   Rosanna Ralph born about 1839 .  Married Charles Lloyd on 10 Aug 1857 at St Martins, Tipton, Staffs. Fathers: John Ralph, Boatman and John Lloyd, Boatman.
  Witnesses: Thomas Ralph and Mary Ann Ralph

FindMyPast has image of parish register, the witness looks like Edward Ralph rather than Thomas. Is that different on the GRO cert?

Have you any idea who Edward and Mary Ann Ralph are?

If Rosanna's age is right she should have been born after 1837, but I can't find any registration for her birth