Can anyone help find our Mary ...

[~MERLIN~]

Do you have the death certificate for Thomas?

If so, what information is given about his wife Mary?

[odysseyov]

No, Mary wasn't mentioned in the Memoriam notices and nor was she mentioned in the family.   As she was so much younger than Thomas, we speculated that either she left him after the death of Maude or was insitituionalised.   We can't imagine any other reason why she would not have been mentioned.   Gma and her sister spoke with love of their father but simply didn't mention their mother.   As Letitia was resident in Vic we wondered (if they were sisters) whether Mary had returned to Vic.   There is no record of a death form a Mary Minton in the relevant NSW bdm decades although I did find a Mary Murphy ?
I appreciate all the efforts to help and am sorry that I haven't provided enough information but will answer whatever you ask if I can.
Sorry, Merlin, I do not have Thomas death Certificate.   Would it be likely to mention Mary?
odysseyov

[thetowers]

but lacking a birth Certificate for either Mary or Letitia which would link them together, we don't really know which, if any, death Certificate to apply for

Sometimes,  the only way to find out is to buy it.  There might be several John Murphys.   Many of them list their children.

[thetowers]

As she was so much younger than Thomas, we speculated that either she left him after the death of Maude or was insitituionalised.   

A lot of women in those days died in their 40's, even if it wasn't a child-bearing-related cause.  A lot of men did too.  It would be unwise to assume that just because she was much younger than her husband,  that she ought to have outlived him.

I also noticed that your Mary was supposedly 18 in 1867,  which would place her birth around 1849.   In particular,  that places her birth before the "gold rush",  and also before the separation of Victoria as a separate colony,  and before the period of very rapid growth of the economy and population.  You might want to consider whether her parents had a convict background,  which was not as fashionable then, as it is now,  which led a lot of people to fudge some of their details.

But first,  you need to find her death certificate.    Someone suggested she died in 1886 ?   I suggest you check that out, rather than arbitrarily reject it.

[judb]

I have edited my reply #3 as follows:

The only death listed in NSW is for edited later Mary N MINTON in 1888, registered at Berrima (#7787) with parents John J and Margaret. This is not your Mary as the birth for this child is listed with same parents in 1887, so only a baby at time of death.

Judith

[Dundee]

I also noticed that your Mary was supposedly 18 in 1867,  which would place her birth around 1849.   In particular,  that places her birth before the "gold rush",  and also before the separation of Victoria as a separate colony,  and before the period of very rapid growth of the economy and population. 

It also places her birth before civil registration of births commenced in 1853, so you are looking for a baptism. 

Debra 

[Dundee]

There are records for Arabella, Louis, William and Maria being admitted to the Randwick Asylum for Destitute Children - discharged in 1877.  Perhaps they would give you some idea of what happened to Mary.

http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchform.aspx?id=74

Hmm, I see Maud was born 5 years later. 

Debra 

[jorose]

Full details for the birth and death of Maud - where was she born and died (at home, in an institution or hospital?), would be extremely useful.   

I see on Trove that in 1877 and in 1880, a Thomas Minton was advertising in Sydney newspapers saying he would not be held responsible for any debts incurred by his wife.  The first date lines up with the kids being in Randwick, perhaps she'd left the family, and the children were temporarily put into care as a result, with their father then fetching them out when he was able.

Given this, and the gap between kids, we can't be sure that she didn't simply put down Thomas as the father on the certificate even if they were living separately at the time, for example.  And she could have easily gone back to using "Murphy" or switched to another name altogether, which will make her hard to track.

[majm]

Arabella Georgina is my Gma - I have her birth Cert and you are right Vic Certificates are very informative.   However, it only shows Mary's birthplace as Melbourne, Victoria and her age as 25.   

Who was the informant on that birth cert?

Do you have any birth cert with Mary as the informant?  That would be first hand information provided by Mary.

Cheers,  JM