Author Topic: William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW  (Read 38597 times)

Offline knows a lot

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW
« Reply #63 on: Sunday 06 December 15 00:21 GMT (UK) »
Information on place names   part 2

The nearby village of Bungonia was a stopover freight point located on the original main road from Sydney to Queanbeyan. The main road changed when a more direct road was built from Sutton Forest to Marulan.  Bungonia then became a more secluded area, located approximately 20 kilometres away from the new main road.

It was common practice for the owners of large grazing properties to lease out  segments of those properties.  Those segments were known as paddocks and each paddock would comprise several acres and sometimes had a shepherd’s hut built on it.  The shepherd’s wife and/or older children were quite often employed by the homestead as domestic servants, labourers, etc.  Molonglo and Willeroo  were such properties.  Another large property, Currawong, adjoined Willeroo.  Both of those properties were owned by the Cooper families.

Molonglo was originally a 100 acre property granted in 1824 to Owen Bowen, a former convict. The property was situated approximately 30 kilometres south-east of Lake George and Bungendore.  By 1828, the property size had increased to 500 acres. By 1840, Molonglo had become famous for breeding some of the finest racehorses in the colonies. In 1861, gold was discovered on the property and it was opened up for diggers to take out leases.

Molonglo was sold in 1861 to a nearby property owner and absorbed into that property which was known as Carwoola.  In 1862, another adjacent property located in Primrose Valley was absorbed into Carwoola.  It had now increased to 25,000 acres.  A Georgian style mansion was built and even included a village for the employees with houses, store, blacksmith and a church. Carwoola eventually increased to 55,000 acres in size.

Quite often, the owner or manager of such properties, kept records of births, deaths and marriages, etc.  Some properties (stations) had populations equivalent to small villages.

The above information explains why a descendant’s occupation can be listed on one document as a shepherd, a labourer on another, or miner on yet another.  Many of our own Davis and related families were born on and employed at such properties. Some took out leases of their own. Others became gold miners, timber cutters and labourers on railway line constructions. Another (James Davis) was given a government land grant located near Captain’s Flat.

The descendants of our original ancestors in Australia, are now located all over the southern parts of NSW, the south coast to VIC,  many suburbs of Sydney,  mid and far north coast of NSW, stretching out as far west as Nyngan and Bourke,  and also located in areas around Tenterfield, Inverell, Armidale regions, southern QLD, NT and WA.  Those areas are the ones that have been uncovered by research.  There will definitely be many others, further afield. All place names and towns mentioned in these pages, are all located within NSW, unless shown otherwise.

Offline knows a lot

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW
« Reply #64 on: Sunday 06 December 15 00:25 GMT (UK) »
OTHER INFORMATION AND NOTES    page 1

It is most certain that our Davis and Mundy related ancestors were originally in the Robertson, Sutton Forest, Bong Bong, Burrawang, Bowral, Berrima and Mittagong areas.  There are too many instances of same surname related births, deaths and marriages registered within those areas, especially at Bong Bong and Sutton Forest.  There are instances of one or two day journeys being made from other locations, even from Yass, despite church facilities being in place at those other locations. This indicates that our Davis related family roots were probably long established and widely spread within the above mentioned areas.  In 1828, a James Davis (life sentence convict) age 30, was a shepherd indentured to the McArthur family at “Arthursleigh” Sutton Forest. Our ancestor, William Davis, was aboriginal and was born between 1837 and 1840 at  either Mittagong or Burrawang (both close to Sutton Forest and Bong Bong). That James Davis could possibly be the father of our William Davis.

A child named Henry Lucas was christened at Bong Bong in 1837. Parents were Samuel Lucas and Susan Davis, both of Inverary.  Why travel from Inverary?  Reason probably due to Susan’s siblings and family members (Davis) probably resided in areas near Bong Bong.  Susan Davis was possibly an aunt or related to our William Davis. In 1828, there was  a Martha Davis, age 20, a servant in the Futter family homestead called “Lumley Park”. Martha was a convict arriving Australia in 1828 and had been sentenced to 7 years.  Lumley is very close to Inverary.

Also in 1837, a William Clee Tomkins (aboriginal) of Yass married an Elizabeth Davis at Bong Bong. Both in the service of  I. Waite of Yass (property owner).  Abode shown as Maneira (probably a large property name or possibly meant to be Monaro). Elizabeth was a daughter of a George and Mary Davis.  Probable relatives of our William Davis.  Why travel from Yass to Bong Bong?  Could the reason be Elizabeth Davis’ parents and relatives probably all resided in areas surrounding Bong Bong?  Elizabeth Davis was most likely family related to Susan Davis mentioned above. Several members of the Waite family (mentioned above), lived in the Berrima and Mittagong areas (near Bong Bong). Myra Waite of Mittagong, signed as a witness at the marriage of our other ancestors, William Munday to Ellen Neenan at Sutton Forest  in 1843. Sutton Forest is also near Bong Bong.  In 1828, a John Waite was a stock and land owner at Bong Bong.

Another early ancestor, Jane Meggett (adopted name Orme, but recorded as Arms), married a James Henry at Goulburn in 1857. An Elizabeth Jane Henry died at Robertson in 1894 and parents were James and Jane Graham. Could Elizabeth Jane
Henry be a daughter in law of Jane Meggett?  Jane’s mother (Ellen Peters) married John Meggett at Bong Bong in 1837 (Bong Bong is very close to Robertson).  In 1875 at Braidwood, a Jane Henry married a James Abernethy. They had 6 children (1876 – 1887) and all born in the Shoalhaven area (Nowra). Could she be our Jane Meggett having a 2nd marriage?  In February 2003, a Sydney Morning Herald newspaper had a photograph of the disgraced detective, Roger Rogerson with an underworld mate whose name was Graham “Abo” Henry.  Possibly a descendant of Jane Henry (nee Meggett) or her husband’s relatives.

Jane Meggett’s mother was Ellen Peters (married names of Meggett and then Orme) but have not been able to find a death record for Ellen. Ellen was also the mother of Martha Orme/Holmes who married our William Davis.  In 1893, an Ellen Holmes died at Cassilis (north of Mudgee) and parent’s names recorded as unknown. That Ellen was born c1839 and was age 54 when she died. She was probably related to our Ellen Orme. It is known that Ellen Orme died prior to 1899.  One of Ellen Orme’s daughters had a 2nd marriage in 1899 – but mother’s name was shown as Helen Walker and deceased.

Offline knows a lot

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW
« Reply #65 on: Sunday 06 December 15 00:26 GMT (UK) »
OTHER INFO AND NOTES    page 2

Another of Ellen’s daughters was Martha, but her birth was recorded as “Orme (Holmes)”. Ellen’s eldest son (William Orme - jnr) had six children.  Their surnames were recorded as either Horn or Horm, but when those children married, their surnames were recorded as Holmes.  One of them married at Mudgee in 1893 and another at Wattle Flat  in 1894. (Wattle Flat  is south of Mudgee). Some of our Orme families then moved further north to the Tenterfield/Inverell districts. Tenterfield is located about 20 kilometres south of the Queensland border.

Page 79 lists Martha Jane Munday as a daughter of Ellen Neenan (main family link). Martha was born in 1844 at Mittagong. She died at Texas QLD in 1915. Texas is very close to the QLD/NSW border, not far from Tenterfield.

A Florence Benson is mentioned on page 45. Her family moved from Captain’s Flat to the Tenterfield district. Florence married at Inverell in 1905.  On  page 11, there is reference to a Henry Penhall who was employed/residing at Willeroo homestead in 1877. William Davis and Martha Orme (Holmes) were also employees living at Willeroo since at least 1869 to about 1880. William married Martha in 1869. Henry Penhall moved to Tenterfield and married there in 1883. His wife Sarah gave birth to 2 children there, and then a 3rd at Cooma in 1889 who died at Kiama in 1891. In 1887, some of the Davis family were also recorded at Cooma.  During 1891, William and Martha Davis, plus most of their children and grandchildren, also moved to Kiama. By 1914, three of those children (and their families) plus the Penhall family had moved to Sydney.

Some of the distances travelled by family members and acquaintances, were quite considerable. All the travels would probably have been by horse drawn vehicles, rail and/or foot. (For example :  Willeroo to Tenterfield is approximately 1000 kilometres. Then return south to Cooma  is approximately another 1200 kilometres). Possibly the journeys were made by ship to the nearest port or by rail, then the land journey.

There are many references to the Tenterfield and surrounding areas and assumedly, many descendants of our early ancestors are residing in those same areas.
 
The following persons were recorded in an 1828 Census conducted in NSW. The census was mainly intended as a record of the exact whereabouts of convicts on ticket of leave, bonded, early release or free by servitude, etc.  It did not normally include aboriginals.

James DAVIS, age 30, sentence life, arrived 1818 on ship “Shipley”, bonded as a government servant (shepherd) to Mr. McArthur at “Arthursleigh” Sutton Forest.

John DAVIS, age 19, born in colony, occupation stockkeeper, employed by John Larkham at Sutton Forest.

Daniel DAVIS, age 21, sentence life, arrived 1828, government servant (hutkeeper) to William Cowper of Bombay (near Braidwood).

On page 40, there is a reference to Ada Ann Davis being born at Mount Pleasant in 1869 and her father’s name shown as John William Davis. There was a Mount Pleasant located near Yass, another near Willeroo and another near Gerringong. Listed in the 1872 Post Office Directory for Yass are 5 persons with surname of Davis.
George DAVIS,  a farmer at Yass River
James DAVIS,  innkeeper at Mundoonan via Yass
John DAVIS,  farmer --- Yass
Noah DAVIS , ---- Mount Pleasant via Yass
William DAVIS,  farmer at Lutton via Yass

Offline knows a lot

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW
« Reply #66 on: Sunday 06 December 15 00:37 GMT (UK) »
NOTES…..Photos of William and Martha’s daughters, Ada, Martha and Annie, reveal dark skin and aboriginal features.  An elderly descendant (in 2002) recalls Frances Ellen Davis (another of William’s daughters) was also dark skinned and had aboriginal features. Those same features are also evident in a c1925 photo of Ada’s daughter Ethel Maude Rogers.  (In contrast, Ada’s mother (Martha Orme) had her father’s English features and Ada’s 1st husband (Martin Rogers) was born in England).  Dates, places, descriptions, photos and other information, collectively indicate that the aboriginal, William Davis, who died at Berry on 27 November 1892, was Martha Davis’ husband.

Copies of various documents and certificates, show many variations insofar as dates,places and names are concerned.  Some errors could be due to illiteracy. The variations would normally indicate more than one William Davis involved, or maybe unofficial adoptions, but all the above children were definitely raised by Martha.

William’s marriage certificate of 1869, states he was born at Mittagong in 1837.
A son’s birth certificate 1885, states William Davis as age 57, born at Mittagong 1837.
William’s death at Berry 1892, states age 50, born at Burrawang.  (i.e. born 1842).
A daughter’s certificate 1890,  father William Davis age 44, born Sydney. (i.e. 1846).
A daughter’s birth certificate 1869, states father’s name is John William Davis.
A daughter’s baptism certificate 1873, states her father as William George Davis.
A daughter’s birth in Dec. 1877  father William Davis age 40 born Sydney. (i.e. 1837).
The William Davis at Braidwood Gaol  c1890, is shown as age 45.  (i.e. born c1845).


Offline knows a lot

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW
« Reply #67 on: Sunday 06 December 15 00:47 GMT (UK) »
Land map of Currawong 1895, etc

Offline knows a lot

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW
« Reply #68 on: Sunday 06 December 15 01:07 GMT (UK) »
photo Martha Orme/Davis/Howard with some of the Maher family c1920

Offline jemappelle

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW
« Reply #69 on: Monday 07 December 15 23:23 GMT (UK) »

Many of you researchers have probably experienced all the setbacks, etc. that I have experienced.
There are some instances where facts have been uncovered by me, which have previously been unknown. One of those facts was the family surname change from Orme to Holmes. Other reseachers had encountered a brick wall trying to uncover older records.

The Berrima District Family History Society helped me with several items and I will forever be indebted to their knowledge and assistance. Several years ago, I forwarded printed and CD showing all the known details and photographs etc relative to my family history. Those records are in their archives. Since then there has been several small snippets added into my own records, but have not sent them to the Society as yet.


I've just been in touch with the Berrima District Family History Society and they say they do not have a copy of this CD, unfortunately.

I will message you in the hope that we can sort out something.  :)

Offline majm

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,385
  • NSW 1806 Bowman Flag Ecce signum.
    • View Profile
Re: William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW
« Reply #70 on: Tuesday 08 December 15 00:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

From the NSW BDM registration only for the death of William DAVIS, #1898/2906, registered Berry District, can you please type up the following details :  (sometimes fresh eyes spot a tiny clue ... it only takes a tiny clue to eat away at the mortar in a family history brickwall  :) )

Date and place of death (I think date would be 27 November 1892)
Name and occupation
Sex and age
Cause of Death
Duration of last illness
Medical attendant
When he last saw deceased
Name and occupation of father
Name and maiden surname of mother
Informant and relationship to deceased
When and where buried
Name of Undertaker
Name and religion of Minister
Names of witnesses of burial
Where born
How long in the Australasian Colonies
Place of marriage
Age at marriage
To whom married
Details of Children of Marriage (names and chronological order of the living, and gender of the deceased)

Sudden deaths often required an inquest, or at least a Police Magistrate’s report to a Coroner.  If there’s any indication on the certificate that an inquiry was held, have you searched for the outcome of that inquiry….

Re the photo
I am wondering if the sepia colouring in the 1920s photographs  influences the suggestion of Aboriginal heritage.  Perhaps DNA testing may be the way to go.   

Re Contacting the Diocese,
Yes, if you have exhausted all the other tips, then perhaps a snail mail letter enclosing photocopy of the NSW BDM document,  asking for their suggestions may be the way to go (explaining where you have already tried, and noting the missing witnesses .... to me that is significant, as though the Rev missed recording these on at least one register ....  :-\ ).  Remember of course that at this time of the year, it is Advent and the volunteers may be involved in current programs within the parish and within their own home life too.   

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline jemappelle

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: William DAVIS married to Martha ORME/HOLMES 1/2/1869, Collector, NSW
« Reply #71 on: Tuesday 08 December 15 00:58 GMT (UK) »
Thanks JM.  I have a transcript of his death registration and there are a lot of blanks:

Date and place of death                        27 November 1892
Name                                                  William Davis
Rank or Profession                                Aboriginal
Sex and age                                         Male, 50 years
Cause of Death                                     Accidentally killed by falling of (sic) a load of hay
Duration of last illness                           1 day
Certification                                          Dr J P Brereton
When he last saw deceased                     26 November 1892
Name and occupation of father                not know
Name and maiden surname of mother      no entry
Informant and relationship to deceased    Richard Morris, police constable, Berry
Registration                                           Henry Taylor, 30 November 1892, Berry
When and where buried                          28 November 1892, Berry
Name of Undertaker                                Peter Ettinghausen
Name and religion of Minister                  no entry
Names of witnesses of burial                   William Blake and John Barber
Where born                                           Burrawang, NSW
How long in the Australasian Colonies      Aboriginal
Place of marriage                                   no entry
Age at marriage                                    no entry
To whom married                                   no entry
Details of Children of Marriage                 no entry

The transcription agent has written on the bottom:  More information about this death could be gleaned from the police gazette or newspapers.  I've searched and not been able to find anything.