Harradines of Bedfordshire

[yelsel]

Hi All
Thanks for the replies, sorry if I asked too many questions at the same time.  The 1841 census that I saw on Ancestry quotes Elizabeth being born about 1782 in Bedfordshire, where did you find the info that Elizabeth was not born in Beds or am I missing something? As for James' birth, there is a IGI record for James, birth 23 June 1783 in Old Warden and this the only James I could find on cd's I have from the Bedfordshire Family History Society being born in that year which is also his birth year on the 1841 census. Also from the IGI records I have a family group record which lists James born at this time as one of the children of James Harradine (b 1751) and his wife Elizabeth, along with Charlotte and Jane born in Old Warden and Samuel born in Southill. I know this is not proof which is why I was asking if anyone could confirm the details. There may be someone who has also researched this part of the Harradine family.
As for James and Elizabeth deaths, I have their death certificates.  Elizabeth died 6 April 1847 in St Georges Hospital , London and was buried 11 April 1847 in Southill. James died 15 Feb 1853 at 17 Kinnerton Street, London with his daughter Mary Ann Harradine in attendance and was buried 20 Feb 1853 in Southill. Like you David, I couldn't find James on the 1851 census.
I haven't come across an Ann Harradine in my searching but as James is my 4 x great grandfather, there could be some connection.
Lesley

[janan]

I can't see James born c 1783 in 1851 either, but will keep looking

I take it this is his son?

2 Kinnerton St, St Georges Hanover Sq
Jas Harradine Head Mar 38 Stable servant Southill Beds
Mary A Harradine Wife 43 Cosham, Wilts
+ 6 children
HO107/1477/56 Pg42

Jan

[bedfordshire boy]

Whilst the 1841 scan on Ancestry isn't the best I've ever seen, it's clearly a "N" for Not born in county against Elizabeth Harradine, and to reinforce it the enumerator has marked each N on the page with an E, presumably standing for England. I've checked my CDRom set which is perfectly legible and it's even clearer as a N.

I think the informant at James' death must have been his daughter in law, rather than his daughter. His son James' wife was Mary Ann in 1851, and I can see no baptism of a daughter Mary Ann.

I've been going through the Southill and Old Warden baptisms today, and it looks to me as though there were two families in Old Warden:
- John Harradine who married Ann Armstrong of Langford on 23 Oct 1776, and baptised a number of children in Old Warden until there was a Samuel baptised in Southill in 1795
- James who married Elizabeth Mardelen in 1770, who baptised just two children in Old Warden before baptising a Samuel in Southill in 1788

These look to be the two Harradine families living in Southill in the 1801 census, and Frances who married Robert Isherwood was presumably an unbaptised daughter of James and Elizabeth, a sister of your James.

It would be nice to find James in 1851 to provide a link to Old Warden, but I'm happy with what evidence there is to show he's the 1783 Old Warden James.

David

[yelsel]

Thanks David, As you say the 1841 census is not that clear and I did miss the "n".  If as you think the E stands for not England, it would seem I won't get much further with James' wife Elizabeth
Lesley

[bedfordshire boy]

The E is in the column reserved for I Ireland, S Scotland, and F Foreign parts. The enumerator has put E which I think is England - ie not born in Beds but born somewhere else in England. Which makes it very difficult to trace her! She could have come from anywhere in England (except Beds!).

[bedfordshire boy]

Let's look at the previous generation of your Harradine family: the parents of James baptised 1783 in Old Warden:

                 
James' parents James and Elizabeth Harradine.  James born 31/03/1751 in Sandy. I found a marriage to Elizabeth Mardelden on 10 Oct 1770 in Old Warden, but haven't found any records of a birth for her.  Possible death for James 22 Aug 1813 in Sandy and Elizabeth 4 April 1817 in Southill.

I agree that James was the son of James Harradine and Elizabeth Mardelen who married in Old Warden on 10 Oct 1770. Both were otp, but neither of them appear to have been baptised in Old Warden. You suggest that James sen may have been buried in Sandy in 1813 (aged 64). Knowing how inaccurate burial ages can be, this could easily be the James baptised in 1751. But in that case who is the James buried in Southill  in 1820 aged 77? Which I suppose is a roundabout way of saying that I remain to be convinced that it was James from Sandy who married in Old Warden and who then lived in Southill, rather than a slightly older unbaptised James Harradine. I can find no marriage of a James Harradine in Sandy, nor any children baptised there where James was the father. Definitely need to see the two burial entries to see if any other information is given. In any event it shows there was a James living in Southill after 1813 whose baptism I can't find.

Samuel Whitbread of Southill was the local magistrate, and he kept detailed notes of cases brought to him. 7 Sep 1811 "Mary Green of Southill to complain of William Smith. Speak to James Harradine and send Smith to Warden". The editor notes "James Harradine was SW's fellow overseer at Southill 1811". So James Harradine, presumably senior, was living in Southill in 1811.

And who Elizabeth Mardelen was I haven't a clue. It's the only instance I can find in Beds of that name. Mardell was much more prevalent, but mainly in the south of the county and none around the Old Warden parishes.

Still working on them!

David

[johnP-bedford]

James Harradine baptised 31 Mar 1751 at Sandy was son of Isaac Harradine & Elizabeth Shelton who married there on 16 Oct 1749. They also baptised son William on 9 Feb 1752 & he was buried on 26 Mar 1752, just after Elizabeth wife of Isaac Harradine was buried on 20 Feb 1752.

There is no further mention of this James at Sandy up to 1812.

The Sandy parish records up to 1812 are transcribed on FreeReg

[bedfordshire boy]

Thanks for the reminder that Sandy pre 1813 is on FreeReg, John. I often overlook that, knowing that all Beds pre 1813 is on the IGI.

With only one baptism in Beds that fits, I'd have gone along with Lesley's idea that James was from Sandy, a mere 5 miles from Old Warden, (with the slight reservation as to why, having left Sandy at 19 and having lived in Old Warden and Southill all his adult life, he should have been buried back in Sandy), were it not for one awkward fact. The James who was buried in Southill in 1820 aged 77, for whom I can't find a baptism, is the fly in the ointment. Two baptisms and only one burial I can handle, but two burials and only one baptism sets off warning bells. Playing devil's advocate, until James in 1820 can be explained I'm questioning that the marriage in Old Warden was James from Sandy. In fact, I think it may have been/probably was the unbaptised James.

There, my neck is well and truly stuck out!

David

[johnP-bedford]

Beds Poor Law Papers Index throw up a couple of Harradine of Southill entries (which can be found on the Beds Archives database as Haradine)

Ref P69/13/1/76
Settlement Certificate: Jas. Haradine, w. Eliz., Frances (7yrs), James (2yrs), Warden
Dated 3 Dec 1785

Ref P69/13/1/78
Settlement Certificate: John Haradine, w. Ann, chn. Sarah (11yrs), Geo. (5yrs), Eliz. (3yrs), Samuel (1 month). Warden
Dated 1 Oct 1790