Harradines of Bedfordshire

[bedfordshire boy]

Excellent! Thanks John.

That confirms that Frances (unbaptised) who married Robert Isherwood in 1799, and James who Lesley is tracking, were children of James from Old Warden, which is the link we've been looking for.

And my theory, which I'm working on at this very moment, is that John who moved from Old Warden to Southill five years after James, is probably related to James, brother perhaps. Without a baptism, and with no Harradine wills at BLARS, it's not going to be easy!

Somehow this lot are connected to my 4xg grandmother Ann Harradine b Southill 1765, I just don't know how!

David

[yelsel]

Hello,  I've been at work all week so this the first time I have logged on.  I see a lot of information which is great.
David - I may be repeating something that has already been said, but I found a IGI record for James and Elizabeth Harradine or Harding showing a birth of James about 1751 of Bedford and spouse Mrs Elizabeth Harradine.  When I looked at the family it shows James birth about 1751 of Bedford and Elizabeth about 1755 of Bedford.  On checking the cd's I have from the beds family history society the only birth in 1751 I found was Jas Harodine, christened 31/03/1751, Sandy, son of Isaac and Eliz, so I thought this was my James (father of James b1783 in Old Warden).  I also found the following children:-
Charlotte Harraden, 23/06/17771 Old Warden, parents James & Elizabeth
Jane Harradine, 21/11/1179 Old Warden, parents James & Elizabeth
James Harradine 22/06/1783 Old Warden, parents James & Elizabeth
Samuel Harradine, 01/06/1788 Southill, parents James & Elizabeth

This was my link for the Sandy/Old Warden connection. I then found the birth of Isaac Harradine in 1732 in Sandy and thought this could be James' father.  My findings about Isaac tie up what John has said.  This was why I thought that James who was buried in Sandy 1813 was the same James.  I haven't found a John as a possible brother to James, but maybe some other relative.

I have also looked at FreeREg and although I found some marriage records, I couldn't find birth records.

Hope this makes sense
Lesley

[johnP-bedford]

From the Monumental Inscriptions of All Saints Southill surveyed about 1916 by A Weight Matthews and transcribed by Beds FHS in 2004.....

B057 Headstone : In memory of Elizabeth Harradine wife of James Harradine who died April 7th 1847 aged 68 years ......... Also James Harradine who died Febry 15th 1853 aged 73 years.

B058 Headstone : In memory of Hannah Harradine daughter of James & Elizabeth Harradine and many years the faithful servant of W H Whitbread Esqr of Southill who suddenly departed this life June 18th 1855 aged 35 years. (**)

C076 Headstone : This stone is affectionately erected in memory of Susan Harradine secord daughter of William & Susan Harradine who died Dec 6th 1841 aged 6 years.

(**) In 1851 at Southill Park living with other servants is Hannah Harradine unmarried aged 28 born Southill, laundry maid. In same household is Mary Harradine unmarried aged 40 born Sandy, housemaid     

[johnP-bedford]

Regarding Charlotte Harradine, Beds Archives database has an interesting entry ref QSR/30/1829/87 Indictments & presentments - for Hezekiah Albone, Southill, labourer - obscene exposure intending to insult Charlotte Harradine, Southill, spinster

[yelsel]

Hello John, thanks for that.  I had seen the monumental inscription for James and Elizabeth 1847 & 1853.  They both died in London and appear to have been bought back to Southill for burial. Also for their daughter Hannah.
Interesting fact about Charlotte.  I have noticed that quite a few of the Harradine females remain unmarried, I wonder why?
Lesley

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Lesley

I fully follow your thought processes so far as James senior is concerned. I don't dispute your findings regarding the ancestors of James who was baptised in 1751. It's just that there's a disconnect and I have grave doubts that he was the James who married in Old Warden

There are various databases on the LDS site. The only one that is reliable is Community Indexed IGI. All the rest are member submissions (which is the one you're talking about) or member trees which vary in quality from well researched to pure fiction. Any entry which says "about 1751" means that whoever put the entry on the site doesn't know when or where the event took place and it's a guess. In this case whoever put those entries on the LDS site simply didn't know. Like all online trees they're useful as a guide only. You assumed that whoever put the entry there had done some research and having found the baptism in Sandy you thought you'd found the answer. It may still be the right answer but I have doubts.

There's no evidence that James who married in 1770 in Old Warden was the James baptised in 1751 in Sandy, although, given the proximity of the two parishes and the fact that there's no other baptism that fits, it would be a reasonable assumption to make. But as I said, a red flag is raised as there are two burials of a James Harradine: one in Sandy which looks suspiciously like the James baptised in 1751 in Sandy, and the other in Southill which is where the James who is your centre of interest was last known to be living.

As with so many events pre 1837, it comes down to the balance of probabilities. My gut feeling is that your James isn't the one from Sandy, but I can't prove that it wasn't. But I can say, with confidence, that there's a spare James in Southill for whom there's no baptism in Beds. And I'm working on the two Harradine families who lived in Old Warden and Southill from 1770 to 1790.

David

[yelsel]

Hi David

I know this is not proof either, but checking for Frances Harradine on Ancestry.co a family tree comes up.  The tree has James (B1751 in Sandy as her father and Elizabeth Mardelden/Maudlin as her mother.  It lists James (B1783 as her brother and it also has a first marriage for James to Rebecca Sarl, something which Jan mentioned, and a second marriage to Elizabeth Cox. 

The tree has James father as Isaac (b1732, d1782 in Sandy) and his mother as Elizabeth Shelton, marriage 1749.

Isaac father is listed as Isaac (b1710 in Sandy) and mother Elizabeth.

I know the tree holder could have got their information from the same sources as me and it doesn't help that all the James' and Isaacs' married Elizabeths' which makes it more difficult to confirm who is who, but I thought I'd just let you know what else I found.

Lesley

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Lesley

I really place little credence on what other people put in their online trees. I suspect that all online trees and member submissions on the IGI have fallen into the same trap so far as this family is concerned - as there's only one baptism of a James Harradine in Beds at anything like the right time they've all assumed he must be the right one. But he wasn't the only James Harradine living in Beds at the right time - there were two - one living in Sandy, the other living in Southill, as is clear from the two burials. So one of them, in all likelihood the one who was buried in Southill, was either not baptised or came from out of county

Who the James from Sandy's parents and ancestors were is totally irrelevant if he's not the James who married in Old Warden, and I don't think he was. I think you may have been researching someone else's ancestors.

It was me who pointed out that James junior had married twice and his first marriage was to Rebecca.

I was in touch a few days ago with the owner of the tree with Frances Harradine in it. It was just an assumption on his part that Frances was the daughter of James and Elizabeth - I gave him the information that John found from the Settlement Certificate, which proved that she really was their daughter.

David

[johnP-bedford]

The burial record of James Harrodine at Southill on 1 June 1820 age 77 has his abode at Cardington.

Now I'm suggesting that he is the father of Samuel Harradine who married Elizabeth Bonast of Old Warden by licence on 28 Apr 1811 at Cardington. There they baptised son William Bonast on 15 Mar 1812 and daughters Ann and Elizabeth on 17 Sep 1815. These then went on to live in Haynes as on 1841 census living there is Samuel & Elizabeth & children Ann 1817, John 1821, Mary Ann 1826 & Benjamin 1828. They also baptised son Samuel born 1819 at Haynes in 1840 (as per IGI) and he is buried at Haynes on 27/1/1848 aged 28. William Bonest Harradine married Susan Frost at Cardington on 26 Oct 1832, one witness was Ann Harradine his sister perhaps. Father Samuel was buried at Haynes age 60 on 9 May 1848. That makes him born 1788 so is he the Samuel baptised at Southill on 1 June 1788 son of our James & Elizabeth who also baptised James 1783, Charlotte 1771 & Jane 1779.

The other James Harridine buried 22/8/1813 age 64 at Sandy has his abode as Sandy.