Birth

[andycand]

Hi

According to the 1861 census John Norman was born Jarrow, Durham. I would get the birth certificate for Margarets younger brother Thomas as that would give her mothers maiden name as that may help to track down Margarets birth.

Andy

[MonicaL]

Hi All 

The Webster surname reference that you mention for Jane, is this connected to son Thomas' middle name. He shows as Thomas W Norman in 1861, born in Thornley, Durham circa 1858.

I wondered whether this was his birth reg (from here www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl)

Births 3rd Quarter of 1857 - Thomas Welister (?Webster) Norman at Easington, Durham - Vol 10a/ pg. 282

There is a gap between the birth of Margaret and then Thomas. Wondered whether this could have been a sister who may have died before the 1861 census:  https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJQY-PJC with mother showing as likely having the maiden name of Webster. Where do you think Brown has come in to this all? Have you found something with the surname Brown to date?

For background to this post, two of the censuses:

1871 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V51S-T7J
1881 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQFT-G1V

Monica

[MonicaL]

Again, to try to help with names, is this John Norman's family in the Jarrow area (all born in the County of Durham):

Cuthbert Norman 45, collier
Elizabeth Norman 40
Thomas Norman 15, collier
Robert Norman 11
Mary Norman 13...John Norman visiting his now married sister in 1851?
John Norman 9
Cuthbert Norman 4

Monica

[loobylooayr]

Hi Monica.
Long time no chat 

Was just about to post info from FREEbmd regarding Thomas Webster? Norman too.
His Brother Bengeman  could be the child born in Newcastle T  Dec 1863
NORMAN    Benjamin Robinson        Newcastle T.    10b   9   

That middle name could be useful .
Looby 

[maid in the mist]

Thanks everyone for your information and interest in my Norman family.
Margaret's father John Norman was born in Jarrow Co. Durham and his parents were Cuthbert Norman and Elizabeth Robinson so Monica is on the right track.  I wasn't aware of another child Elizabeth born to John Norman who was born between Margaret and Thomas so thank you for that. I did think that Jane's maiden name may have been Webster because two of their children have the middle name of Webster. Another child was Benjamin Robinson Norman he was given the name Robinson after his Grandmother whose maiden name was Robinson.
I  have been unable to find a marriage record for John Norman and a Jane Webster anywhere in England so I thought they may have married in Scotland since Margaret states her birth place as Scotland. However I did find a marriage record on FBMD  for a John Norman to a possible Jane Brown in Tynemouth Northumberland Dec Q 1851 and after tracking down a Jane Brown on the 1851 census living in Tynemouth I find that she was born in Lanarkshire Scotland too so I wondered if Webster was the correct maiden name for Jane after all. but after seeing the record of Elizabeth's baptism and her Mother's name as Jane Webster Norman then Webster must be correct after all.
It would be a good idea though for me to purchase one of Margaret's siblings birth certificate to confirm Jane's maiden name. My next step would be to try and find a marriage record for John Norman and Jane Webster, and now I have come in a full circle, still trying to find a record of my Great Grandmother Margaret's birth.
Thanks again everyone for all your help, I am really impressed with the response.

[MonicaL]

I think it is a given that you have to order one of the English born children's birth regs to confirm Jane's maiden name.

Don't want to be neg (my philosophy in genealogy is never say never never  ) but I think you may struggle to find a Scottish marriage for John and wife Jane and sadly also a birth or christening for Margaret (who very much looks to me to have been born pre 1855 and the start of official registration in Scotland).

Only about a third of BMDs were registered in parish registers pre 1855 for all sorts of reasons (not sure what the equivalent % may be in England pre 1837). It may be that either the events of the marriage and/or Margaret's birth/christening were not registered at all...or registers have been lost or the family registered outside of the established Church of Scotland etc (Lodger I think has already mentioned this earlier).

The area of Cambusnethan is prime mining area, given the occupation of John Norman. Every reason for him to have spent some time after 1851 there working.

Closest I could see as a possible for Jane in 1851 was this entry:

Margaret Mckinnon 49 b. Shotts Lanarkshire
Charles Webster 23 coal miner b. Shotts Lanarkshire
Jane Webster 17 lace worker b. Shotts Lanarkshire
Euphemia Webster 14 lace worker b. Shotts Lanarkshire
John Webster 11 coal miner b. Shotts Lanarkshire
James Jack 40 lodger coal miner

Address: Wilsons Rows, Wishaw

From 1841 for this family, likely some children who show then have died and husband James Webster, a coal miner.

Not sure though how to prove this is the right family for Jane 

Monica

[loobylooayr]

I wouldn't rule out the John Norman - Jane Brown marriage that you have found just yet.
Looby

[maid in the mist]

Thanks Monica and Looby you have been very helpful.