Birth

[maid in the mist]

Looking for a birth for a Margaret Norman between 1854 and 1855 in Wishaw, Lanarkshire Father was John Norman.
Thank you.

[Ruskie]

I just had a very quick look and I can't easily see her birth on Scotland's People nor can I see her on the 1861 Scottish census.

Where did you get her name, date of birth, and father's name from?

[maid in the mist]

Thanks for taking the time to look for a birth for my Great Grandmother Margaret Norman. In the 1861 census and onwards she is living in Newcastle upon Tyne England, on all the census her year of birth is listed as 1855 and born in Wishaw Scotland. Father John and Mother Jane. I gave the benefit of the doubt as her year of birth to be one year either way. Margarets mother was born in Wishaw Scotland too, her Father was born in England, Margaret was their eldest child, her siblings were all born in England.  Is there a possibility there might be a baptism record for her in Wishaw or any surrounding parish?
I really appreciate your help and thanks again.

[GR2]

Do you know when they were married? It is always a possibility that Margaret was born before their marriage and is registered under her mother's maiden name. That is if she was born in 1855. If she was born in 1854, before statutory registration, there may be no record. If there is a record of her baptism in 1854, the father would likely be named.

[Forfarian]

Thanks for taking the time to look for a birth for my Great Grandmother Margaret Norman. In the 1861 census and onwards she is living in Newcastle upon Tyne England, on all the census her year of birth is listed as 1855 and born in Wishaw Scotland.

Are you viewing the census transcriptions? Because the census never lists a date of birth. It gives the person's age on the day of the census, or at least what they say their age is.

I had a look at the original of the 1861 census, and it gives Margaret's age as 8. The 1851 census was taken on 30 March 1851. So (assuming that Margaret's parents gave her age accurately) this would mean she was born between 31 March 1852 and 30 March 1853.

[maid in the mist]

Thanks again for your reply. Although the 1861 and the 1871 Census does indicate Margarets birth year as being 1853,
On the 1881 census she is 26, (birth year 1855)
In 1891 she is 35, (birth year 1856)
In 1901 she is 48, (birth year 1853)
In 1911 she is 57, (birth year 1854)
 I have her marriage certificate to a Charles Wright they were married in 1876 and she states her age as 21, (birth year 1855) and on her death certificate in 1920 she is 65, (birth year 1855)
 Perhaps you are correct in assuming she was born before 1855.
On some of the census her Mothers name is Jane on another census her Mother's name is Ann. I personally think Jane is correct. If you could find a birth record for Margaret would her Mother's
name be recorded?

[Forfarian]

On the 1881 census she is 26, (birth year 1855)

No. The birth year would be either 1854 or 1855

In 1891 she is 35, (birth year 1856)

1855 or 1856

In 1901 she is 48, (birth year 1853)

1852 of 1853

In 1911 she is 57, (birth year 1854)

1853 or 1854

I have her marriage certificate to a Charles Wright they were married in 1876 and she states her age as 21, (birth year 1855)

1854 or 1855

and on her death certificate in 1920 she is 65, (birth year 1855)

1854 or 1855

Perhaps you are correct in assuming she was born before 1855

I am assuming nothing. Merely pointing out that any age is always the age a person was (or believed themselves to be, or claimed to be) on a specific day, and that they may not have actually had their birthday yet in that year.

The census is usually taken about a quarter of the way into the calendar year, about the end of March. So anyone whose birthday is later than this will not have had their birthday in that year. So 'calculating' a year of birth by subtracting the stated age from the year of the census gives a wrong result in three out of four cases.

Apart from the 1891 census, it does look as if she is likely to have been born before the critical date, 1 January 1855, when statutory registration began.

On some of the census her Mothers name is Jane on another census her Mother's name is Ann. I personally think Jane is correct.

Have you viewed the originals of all the census to make sure that you have personally trancribed all the details? Sometimes transcribers make mistakes, but then so do enumerators and the people who provided the information in the first place.

Or could it perhaps be that her mother Jane died and her father married an Ann?

If you could find a birth record for Margaret would her Mother's name be recorded?

Normally, yes, baptism records in Scotland in the 1850s do include the mother's name and maiden surname. They may or may not state the date of birth.

[maid in the mist]

Thanks for your reply,
I didn't mean this to become so complicated but I really do appreciate your information and your time.
I have looked closely at the Census transcriptions and I do realize that the information recorded is not always 100% correct in the recorded ages and names. I did find a burial record for who I think was Margarets mother who died in 1883 in Featherstone Yorkshire, England, her name was recorded as Jane, her age of death ties in with her approximate year of birth according to census returns and on the 1881 census she was living in that same location with her husband and Margarets younger siblings. So yes I do think Jane and Ann are the same person and the enumerator may have thought Jane sounded like Ann.
I did not know that statutory registration in Scotland began in January 1855 so it's very possible that Margaret was born before that date and her birth may have been recorded in parish registers.
Do you have access to the parish registers?

[Forfarian]

Do you have access to the parish registers?

I have the same access as you do - via www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - unless I go to Edinburgh or to a local library which happens to have a microfilm of the parish register. Wishaw, by the way, is in the parish of Cambusnethan, so if you want to try the parish register, that's the one to go for.

However between 1850 and 1854 there are no baptisms of Normans in Cambusnethan, no baptisms of female Normans anywhere in Scotland, and only three male Normans, according to the index at Scotland's People, so it is unlikely to produce the information you are looking for.