Ann Daley murdered 24th july 1839

[majm]

I am off to the library tomorrow to look at the death at East Maitland to see if its a child or Anne will let rootschat know my findings.

Did you?
If so, what information was on the burial register?

Sorry merlin haven't been to library yet

I think the burial register should be on your TO DO list.    I think you have progressed your quest considerably, in the last 9 pages, afterall, you have reached a conclusion about Anne Walker, so you have eliminated her from your possibles for mum of Sarah ....      

thank you MJ found it at last well Anne Walker Edward is not my ancestor .So now have to find Sarahs parents.
What I cant understand is Thomas and Anne Daley 1834  witnesses at a marriage at Morpeth to James Brownlee Mangles 5 is this just a coincidence.
silk

Cheers,  JM

[asilky]

no you are wrong I have only established anne Walker from Edward is not my Anne but Sarahs mother was a Walker by my grandmothers word..The baptism of Sarah I have from Maitland isn't the Edward Anne but is Anne walker maybe immigrated .Plus why would my grandmother tell me that we were related to Daleys and Walkers.That they were irish .Its early records I am after.I want to know why Annie Daley on record from Edward is also Anne Walker on record and what happened to the other Anne walker who went to John Tucker aged 20 why couldn't she be my Anne
Chasing that up .Going to watch my South Sydney
Silky

[majm]

and what happened to the other Anne walker who went to John Tucker aged 20 why couldn't she be my Anne
Chasing that up .Going to watch my South Sydney
Silky

Re Derwick Grove, via Maitland

I caught up with one of my fh buffs this morning.   They have phoned me back with the following info re Derwick Grove, via Maitland.   

It needs further research at NSW SRO and at Land & Property but they suspect that a Richard BINDER ex the Glatton 1803 was an early or perhaps the first possessor of the land, and that by 1829  John TUCKER, junior, a settler of Pattersons River,  was likely occupying Derwick Grove, on the Paterson River)

I can see from the NSW SRO’s
  Index to Early Probate Records that  there’s a Probate mentioned for 1838 for a John TUCKER of Patersons Plains.
  ColSec re Land
There’s a John    TUCKER (Junior) 1829-1829 (reel 1191)
There’s a Richard and Ann BINDER 1829-1831/4 SEE Patersons Plains -small settlers reel 1244/and Newcastle allotments reel 1245 

and Mr Google gives :

http://www.patersonriver.com.au/people/tuckerjhnjnr.htm
http://www.patersonriver.com.au/people/powellj.htm

My fh buffs commented that Charlotte TUCKER, sister of John TUCKER junior, was at ORANGE GROVE, which was her husband’s property (She was married to John POWELL), while John TUCKER junior was likely at DERWICK GROVE.

John Tucker, junior at the Hunter River  was the settler to whom the 20 year old Ann WALKER (1456), sentenced to Life, a catholic, was initially  assigned in 1829 (ex the Edward) versus the Ann WALKER (1460), aged 28, under a 7 year sentence, assigned to George Druitt at Mt Druitt.

Silky, I leave it to you to follow up further to confirm/eliminate/validate any of the above.   The NSW SRO’s records seem to be a logical starting point.  Afterall, that’s where the 1839 inquest information leads back to. 

ADD
I have received a further phone call, and that caller suggested "Derwick" may well be "Butterwick" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durham_County,_New_South_Wales  and to try around Dunn's Creek 

Cheers,  JM

[Neil Todd]

 "Ann BINDER" Could also be Ann BIDNER A family of long standing in the area. Butterwick is abt the proverbial stones throw from my place.

Neil

[majm]

Good point Neil, could well be !

Silky,

Baptised 1 May 1830, Mary DALY, daughter of Thomas DALY and Ann WALKER, registered at St Marys Roman Catholic, Sydney, with sponsors John McLOUGHLAN and Rosa McCORMICK.   

Was this a sister to Sarah?  What information do you have for this lass, or for her sponsors?

Have you considered that Sarah may have been raised by HER sponsors?

Here’s an Ann DALEY and 3 children departing Horbart Town (VDL/Tasmania) bound for Sydney in September 1838  http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4162574  HT Courier 21 Sept 1838 .... perhaps that's the lass who was murdered 21 July 1839?

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

The NSW State Library has film of many of the Early Church Records.   The NSW BDM does NOT have the original handwritten versions, and their website confirms that. “1788 – 1855 …….. Today, our transcriptions are computer format as we don’t hold original handwritten versions of church records”  http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh/bdm_rec.html

On Baptism Sarah when born 29th sept 1831 date of ceremony 29th oct 1832
father Thomas Daley Mother Anne Walker abode Derwick Grove via Maitland .
sponsors Christopher Daley and Bridget Ryan.

So, who is Christopher DALEY & have you researched him ?

From NSW BDM Early Church Records we can see Sarah’s baptism was transmitted a number of times.   

Sarah DALEY,  Thomas and Anne, Vol 125,  line 2293,  1831   (“e” in Daley and in Anne)
Sarah DALY, Thomas and Ann,  Vol 127, line 2261, 1831  (no “e’” in Daly or Ann)
Sarah DALY, Thomas and Ann W, vol 129, line 44, 1831 (no ‘”e” in Daly or Ann, but Ann has a middle name starting with W)     I would suspect that Vol 129, line 44 may be the initial record, and the others were transmissions stemming from that.

Hi there,

NSW BDM online index has the baptism of Thomas and Ann/e as parents to Mary DALY/DALEY indexed FOUR times, suggesting to me that her baptism ceremony was outside of Sydney, and the record needed to be transmitted through from the original parish register to the Sydney Diocese register.

Mary DALY, baptism 1830, parents as Thomas and Anne in Volume 125 and line 1580 and line 1880
Mary DALEY, baptism 1830, parents as Thomas and Ann, in Volume 127, line 1465 and vol 128, line 1490.

Each of those Early Church Records noted above may have slightly different information detailed on them, and perhaps one of those pieces of information may include the name of the ship of arrival for one or both of the parents of that lass.    Same with Sarah DALEY’s baptismal record, which I mentioned earlier and quote in this post.   

So perhaps while silky is looking up the 1839 burial record at the library, she may also consider checking if the library holds the film images of the baptisms of both Sarah and Mary  …..


Cheers,  JM

[Neil Todd]

just as an aside on Majm's post, there is one death of a Charles DALEY parents Christopher DALEY and Mother Bridget at Condobolin 1907. No Birth for him and no marriage for the above parents so may not be connected, but interesting nonetheless.

Neil

[majm]

Well found Neil    Condo  now that's on the Lachlan, my old stamping ground 

Honora DALY,  Hunter River
November 1828,
Honora Daly, age 40, Catholic, arrived per Elizabeth 1817, 7 years, Free, Dairywoman, householder Honora Daly, residence Island, in the district of Hunter River
Catherine Daly, age 8, Catholic, born in Colony, in the household of Honora Daly, Island, Hunter River
Betsy Daly, age 4, Catholic born in Colony, in the household of Honora Daly, Island, Hunter River
Thomas Leonard, age 24, Catholic per Earl St Vincent 1820, 7 years, Free, labourer to Honora Daly, Island, Hunter River
John O’Neil, 60 Catholic per Brampton 1823, 7 years, Govt servant, stockkeeper to H Daly, Island, Hunter River.
NSW 1841 Census, Honora DALY with 13 others at Williams River

Catherine DALY
February 1822
Catherine Daly, daughter of Peter Daly and Honora McHue, baptised 21 Feb 1822, Windsor NSW, registered at St Marys Roman Catholic, Sydney, Sponsor Michael O’BRIEN and Maria GRAHAM


Betsy DALY
Sept 1823 Elizabeth DALEY, aged 4, born in the colony, residence Richmond NSW, daughter of P DALEY
April 1826 Elizabeth DALY daughter of Peter Daly and Honora McHue, baptised 6 April 1926, Richmond NSW, registered at St Marys Roman Catholic Sydney, sponsors Owen TIERNY and Bridget CUFFE

Peter DALY
June 1821
Peter Daly and Honora McHughes married 19 June 1821 registered St Marys Roman Catholic, Sydney, Witnesses Ellen KIRK and Kitty KIRK
June 1829
Peter DALEY, Free, Roman Catholic, of William’s Reach NSW buried 5 June 1829, registered Christ Church, C of E, Newcastle.  Arrived per Surry (2)
NB Col Sec papers 1788-1825 has Peter DALEY seeking permission to marry 9 June 1821 in the Roman Catholic Church, at Parramatta.

Dec 1816 Peter DAWLEY 59, born Kerry Ireland,
Sept 1822 Peter DALEY per Surry, at Windsor NSW to Colonel O’Connell
Sept 1823  Peter DAWLEY, per Surry 1816, at Windsor to James King
Nov 1828 Peter DALEY, per Surrey 2, 1816, age 64, Catholic, Govt Servant, Labourer, household of James King, on farm at Richmond

Mary DALEY
Nov 1828, Mary DALEY,age 10, born in the Colony, house of Peter DALEY, Richmond

Re the burial for Peter DALEY 5 June 1829.   You can see the image of the register via the links for Christ Church as per RChat’s NSW Resources Board.   The Church of England register reads
 No 92Y
Peter DALEY,
 Williams Reach
5 June (1829)
Unknown age,
Surry, Free
A Catholic.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/2465674175/in/set-72157605008173551
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.msg2445941#msg2445941
May I please mention that it is not unusual to find baptisms, burials, and marriages that are NOT Church of England ceremonies,  registered in Church of England parish registers in New South Wales during the penal era.   There was, afterall, a general order requiring clergy of all denominations to transmit details of these events to the NSW Chaplains.

http://www.bda-online.org.au/  (Search the indexes for free.)

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

NSW 1828 Census for Peter DALEY also includes
 
Ann DALEY, 5 years, born in the colony, so another possibility.

Nov 1828 Peter DALEY, per Surrey 2, 1816, age 64, Catholic, Govt Servant, Labourer, household of James King, on farm at Richmond

Add NSW BDM online index has 1823 baptism for Ann DALEY, daughter of Peter and Honora, as Vol 127, line 403

further ADD
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18698813 Maitland Mercury 28 Jan 1865
DEATH
At Brookfield, on the morning of the 17th, by the upsetting of a cart, Mrs. Honora DALY, aged 87 years, deeply regretted by a large circle of friends.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18788050 Maitland Mercury 26 Sept 1874
Letters of Administration Deceased Estate of Honora DALY, late of Brookfield, Williams River, widow, intestate to Catherine SEYMOUR, of Wallsend, one of the next of kin of the deceased.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/137947181 Dungog Chronicle 24 Sept 1901
Letters of Administration Deceased Estate of  Honora DALY, late of Brookfield, Williams River, left unadministered, to Mary LULLIAM a daughter of the deceased.


Cheers,  JM