Author Topic: Adoptions  (Read 62421 times)

Offline Wertyperty

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Re: Adoptions
« Reply #279 on: Friday 05 September 14 19:23 BST (UK) »
Hi all,
Did anyone one find out anything more about Patrick firths history that is before his marriage to Kate, another thing that comes to mind is mudgee museum said we would have to ask the church about some notes that said possible other partners for Frances but we didn't get any other information on her recent death transcription so I'm curious as to what these notes are referanced to. I'm wondering if Agnes, Mary Ann and Patrick had the same mother and fathert but Patrick went with his father sometime after Frances fell pregnant with Mary Ann. I'm curious as to if Patricks father was a boundary rider. Another possible scenario.

Offline cando

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Re: Adoptions
« Reply #280 on: Saturday 06 September 14 00:41 BST (UK) »
Butting in here as I feel this needs to be said.....

Wertyperty....

This thread is very long and long posts without facts or useful information may deter people from attempting to assist you.

Not everyone will have the time or patience to read your thoughts or information that is already on the thread.

The next step are the Parish Records at the National Library of Australia.

Quote
Obviously the church didn't tell you that their registers have already been microfilmed & are freely available to the public  ::)

http://nla.gov.au/nla.cat-vn1058138

http://nla.gov.au/nla.cat-vn5900206

http://nla.gov.au/nla.cat-vn5899683

*Copying of individual frames for research purposes are permitted*
Merlin

Quote
The info at the NLA will be images from the original parish registers
JM

bron63 why are you contacting the church when microfilms of the parish records are available at the National Library of Australia and you have had an offer of assistance from judb to go to the NLA for you and unfortunately wertyperty declined her offer.

Please accept this in the spirit in which is written :).

Cheers  :)
Cando
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Offline Wertyperty

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Re: Adoptions
« Reply #281 on: Saturday 06 September 14 02:11 BST (UK) »
Hi cardo, majm, sue, merlin.
I feel the need to explain myself. I had around 24hrs while waiting for transcriptions of Frances, Agnes and Mary Ann firth to go over what certificates we have, what I have learnt and try form a relationship to what problems aboriginal people faced around these times. My theory is based on this and I'm asking if anyone experienced here thinks it is worth my while to divert my research in this direction. The material I have based my theories on is based on what we know about the people that that had some part in the 2 girls life's. If these ideas based on what I've learnt are not helpful could my main helpers to date Sue, Majm or Merlin please let me know as I can modify them to remove them. I feel like I'm not going to find out more unless I have new ideas to research. I have relied on my memory but I am sure all this info I have given to support my theories is in previous posts but I couldn't possibly supply all the links to the info in 1 post. These 2 main theories I have to me are the 2 most probable explanations I can see. Am I wrong in taking this approach. Please let me know.
Wertyperty

Offline Wertyperty

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Re: Adoptions
« Reply #282 on: Saturday 06 September 14 02:29 BST (UK) »
Hi Majm,
can I await your response here please to my last post because I understand you have been helping me the most and are update with our progress. I spent over 8 hrs on this alone last night and seen as it is such a long thread I don't want to deter people with long posts if they are not useful. One thing I noticed re reading my post on the firth boys is I'm not 100% sure if Patrick was aboriginal so I will research him more. Again from memory because I have way too much to sort through Patrick was a shearer?? Was this information you found on Patrick??
Thankyou.


Offline majm

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Re: Adoptions
« Reply #283 on: Saturday 06 September 14 07:14 BST (UK) »
Hi there Werty and Bron,

Werty, may I please urge you to pause,  we need to concentrate on finding out what information was given to the Reverends  when they were organising for Agnes'  marriage at Mudgee and Mary Ann's at Gulgong.

That way we will be better able to determine if the lass at Gulgong was actually Agnes' sister.   May I mention that it is quite possible that the lass at Gulgong was NOT related to Agnes.   I mention this because Agnes is not noted as one of the official witnesses.   IF they were orphaned sisters, one in Mudgee and one in Gulgong, I would have expected at least one would have been a bridesmaid for the other.    However, we now know that Mary Ann was married according to the C of E rites, which is the same as Agnes.    We also know that Mary Ann's husband was from Wallerawang, and that Mary Ann may well have been a regular at the C of E, Gulgong, as this is where she has obviously chosen to marry (ie not at Wallerawang, and not at Mudgee,).

I was hoping that either or both marriage transcriptions would show WHO gave consent for either or both of the girls to marry.    So may I mention that perhaps the girls were at least 21 years of age when they married.   YES, I realise this would conflict with info on Frances' 1864 dc.   BUT it is just another reason to pause and to wait for the details from the original parish registers.   I will be endeavouring to source Gulgong.   But I could be delayed, or perhaps unable to achieve access.   I will leave Mudgee for Judith finding time to get to the NLA, or perhaps other RChatters can get to SAG and help there. 

Registration Number 04905
Date Married 24 DEC 1881
Place Married CHURCH OF ENGLAND PARSONAGE, GULGONG
Religion CHURCH OF ENGLAND
Name JOHN LONG
Name MARY ANN FIRTH
Conjugal Status BACHELOR
Conjugal Status SPINSTER
Birthplace NOT STATED
Birthplace NOT STATED
Occupation LABOURER
Occupation NOT STATED
Age NOT STATED
Age NOT STATED
Usual Residence WALLERAWANG
Usual Residence GULGONG
Father PARENTS NOT STATED
Father PARENTS NOT STATED
Mother
Mother
Occupation - Father
Occupation - Father
Witnesses EMILIE DOBSON, MARY JUDGE
Minister JOSEPH S. DOBSON

Werty, may I particularly strongly recommend you pause your searching for anyone else with the FIRTH surname (including your current endeavours for Patrick & Kate's family) until we have fully assembled ALL the missing info from the TWO marriages (Agnes at Mudgee and Mary Ann at Gulgong).    I am suggesting this simply because it is usually 'best practice' in family history to work from validated information of the family connection.   By this, I mean, we work from the known info, rather than from the unknown.     We have not yet found any logical reason to look out for others with the FIRTH surname, and it seems to me that even Mary Ann FIRTH's Gulgong marriage could turn out to be for someone who is NOT related to Agnes.   We need to wait and get the info.   I am currently making some off line enquiries BUT I do have real life family commitments, and I am waiting for relatives from the Mudgee area to return to their own home, and to then find time to help me to help you, so it could be a week or more before I can help with the Gulgong 'dots' .

So, please Werty, pause the researching until we can give you some detailed and validated info to re-commence your research.

Cheers,   JM
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Offline Wertyperty

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Re: Adoptions
« Reply #284 on: Saturday 06 September 14 07:28 BST (UK) »
Ok Majm,
Thankyou, talk soon.

Offline bron63

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Re: Adoptions
« Reply #285 on: Saturday 06 September 14 10:31 BST (UK) »
Cando I haven't been on since I signed off the other day until I received cert.
Judb I would love to have ur assistance with the nla if it is still on offer would be gratefully appreciated.
Bron63

Offline bron63

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Re: Adoptions
« Reply #286 on: Saturday 06 September 14 10:54 BST (UK) »
Majm I agree and thank you for helping in more searching on this mater.
Bron63

Offline cando

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Re: Adoptions
« Reply #287 on: Sunday 07 September 14 14:13 BST (UK) »
Anglican Diocese of Bathurst

Parish records are held by individual parishes, and are not stored in the Diocesan archives.  For all enquiries about parish records or genealogical research, please contact the relevant parish by mail (address details are listed in the parish information on this website.)
Please note also that parish records are not public property, and parishes may charge a fee for researching historical information. 
Access to recent information may be restricted for privacy reasons.


St Luke’s Anglican Church
PO Box 17,
GULGONG  NSW 2852

The St Luke's Parish Registers don't appear to have been microfilmed so you will have to write to them and as mentioned, they may charge a fee.

So it's now up to one of you to write a letter of request for details of the FIRTH/LONG marriage.

Cando
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