Adoptions

[majm]

May I mention another apparent anomaly between the info gleaned from the online indexes and the Ancestry trees that include Agnes and Mary FIRTH.

The NSW BDM index has a Mary Ann LONG’s death registered 1941.  There’s no one else by that name on that index in that year.  The index does not have the given names for her parents, and instead, the compiler has at least noted other info from her dc registration.  So, we can read that Mary Ann LONG was 88 years of age, and she died in Sydney.      I ‘know’ this because the Ancestry tree cites a source, and the ref no. they cite is 22108.   That number is the NSW BDM reference for a death cert for Mary Ann.   I presume the tree owner actually has an official transcription or a legal copy of that document. 

However, the Ancestry tree has Mary Ann’s age at death as 78 years, rather than the 88 years the NSW BDM index has.    To me, this could be fairly significant.  It puts Mary Ann as the older of the two sisters, and I recall that it was Mary Ann who married before Agnes married.    If Mary Ann was born 1863ish, then she was 16ish  when she married, so she was not yet old enough to give consent to her own marriage, and she needed someone else (her guardian) to give that consent for her.  If she was born 1853 ish, then she had reached her majority well and truly and could consent herself.   

Mary Ann FIRTH’s marriage to John LONG is indexed at NSW BDM for 1881, and is ref no. 4905, registered district of Gulgong.  The Ancestry tree has a date for that ceremony, 24 December 1881.   

These NSW BDM registrations are actually available to any member of the general public to purchase.  Official transcriptions of any registration you can find at the online index for NSW BDM are available for around $20 each from any of the three authorised official transcription services.  You do not need identification to order these.   You do not need to be a family member to buy either a copy or an official transcription of these official records. 

I think that Mary Ann FIRTH’s 1881 marriage registration needs to be checked and yes, there may well be blanks on that official registration.  If so, then after you have purchased the document please please hasten slowly and search out the original parish registers.   Of course, this is assuming you have long known that this Mary Ann is Agnes’ sister. 

But I do think it is often sensible to hasten slowly and methodically through and don't jump ahead of ourselves.  There's no point in joining dots way ahead, until we join the dots immediately in front.  Otherwise we can end up on a dot with no where to go.   

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

I think this may be the cutting for the Mary Ann from that 1941 index mention. 

LONG. - The Relatives and Friends of the late MARY ANN LONG, of 130 Smith  Street, Wentworthville, are kindly invited to  attend her Funeral; to leave our Private Chapel, 240 Oxford Street, Paddington, THIS  AFTERNOON, at 1.30 o'clock, for the Catholic Cemetery, Botany, (Bathurst papers, please  copy.)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17767572 SMH 7 OCT 1941

I notice they ask for the Bathurst papers to please copy.  Perhaps that is a clue 

Cheers,  JM

[Wertyperty]

Hi Majm, yes that info you have found for Mary Ann I also picked up on and pointed out to the recipient of that info. From memory that information was provided to that person from another search resource provider. I pointed out to them the math problem that identifies this as the wrong Mary Ann or if it is there are obvious issues.What I looked at didn't identify the other information you found though, another thing to put aside as not helpful I think.  My write up later will explain to you some of the causes and problems found in this search. In these trees you'll find slight variation of info, mainly due to independent family research and not much facts to go off as well as lack of identifying the facts provided by their documents. As we know family stories can evolve through generations and facts lost or misinterpretations of the story they have been told being passed down, these searches are hard and frustrating for families. This is where roots chat is handy and from what I can tell vital to helping Aboriginal descendants recover their lost family history, there are professionals on board that are able to identify what is fact and what is not to help people get back on the right path.
Thankyou.

[majm]

Have you researched the marriage of a Josiah TROWBRIDGE and a Frances FIRTH from 1853/4 ... This predates NSW BDM civil registrations.  However, it is indexed on both NSW and QLD bdms, as it seems to be a marriage in that part of THEN New South Wales that was hived off in 1859 to become Queensland.    There's many families who moved freely on the stock routes throughout rural NSW and QLD in the 1860s....  Perhaps there's a connection?

Familysearch.org historical records has a Fances Maria TROWBRIDGE baptised in the Hunter region of NSW in January 1854.   Her parents noted as Josiah and Frances Trowbridge.   
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTHV-8BV
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTDT-6R7
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTDT-TSZ

At the NSW BDM index I can see at least one civil registration for a child to Josiah and Frances.  The district reads Clarence Town, so there’s possibly two children with civil registrations to that couple, and of course I can see the Early Church Records for Frances M, (2990/1852) and likely a brother, Robert (378/1851).  The civil registrations that may be part of the FIRTH mystery (registered Clarence Town) are
NSW BDM #6455/1860, Charles TROWBRIDGE, index has his parents as Joseph and Frances and I am speculating that’s a mis-read of Joseph instead of Josiah …. The writing was in longhand, way before typewriters came along.
NSW BDM #5410/1858, Emily TROWBRIDGE, index has her parents as Josiah and Frances. 

Perhaps searching for Josiah and Frances TROWBRIDGE or their children may be an option worth considering.  Afterall, it seems Frances was nee FIRTH.   The 1860 birth cert may well have details for Charles older siblings, and likely an address for his place of birth, and of course may have family members mentioned as witnesses for the birth.

Cheers, JM

[majm]

http://williamsvalleyhistory.org/clarence-town/

http://williamsvalleyhistory.org/aborigines-gringai/ 

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

NSW BDM has the following index marriage entry from their Early Church Records


Josiah TROWBRIDGE and Frances FRITH, with reference 784/1850 and the Church code of CU. 

CU is usually the code for St Johns, Brisbane.  (Anglican)

So I think this is the same ECR as on the Qld BDM.


I should mention that these indexes were not put together until the 1930s, when groups of volunteers who could read the long hand writing on those well worn original sets of records went through and prepared the initial indexes. 

So it does not surprise me that there's some mis-reads coming up these bdm indexes. (FRITH in this instance)   

Cheers,  JM

[Wertyperty]

Possible match for Frances marriage. v1850277 36b1850 ref jonathan j Jackson, Frances foster NJ mudgee/gulgong. Then this as this Frances became Jackson. 2078/1860 William Bolton maried Frances Jackson mudgee 1860.

[majm]

Possible match for Frances marriage. v1850277 36b1850 ref jonathan j Jackson, Frances foster NJ mudgee/gulgong. Then this as this Frances became Jackson. 2078/1860 William Bolton maried Frances Jackson mudgee 1860.

A daughter for that couple ?

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTCL-D7M
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTXH-5BB
 
Emily  1853

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Not yet joining any dots, but this Jonathan was aged 44 when he died, so I am not considering him a father for Emily.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTH1-6JS 

Cheers,  JM