Adoptions

[Wertyperty]

For Ernest firth I retrieved his photo as well, I followed links in and around his records on the Anzacs page and found the photo in a studies on aboriginals Anzacs published book. I only coppied the picture but remember them saying the photo was released to them to help with these studies. If this helps and you find it you may be able to confirm this is him.
Majm, yes I am aware thanks 😊 I'm using a method of chasing people associated directly and coincidences as I know I most likely won't find anything else on our direct family on the web. Guess I'm hoping I can stumble on someone else's info or letters that connect a few more dots or even fill a gap. Will help with searching further for them if so. I'm hoping Frances's death transcription has more info as I think this may hold the most valuable information.

[Wertyperty]

It was an aboriginal light horsemans study.

[majm]

It was an aboriginal light horsemans study.

Well, err, may I just mention the following  re the James FIRTH on that Ancestry tree 


1837 Muster as per BDA I read:
December 1837
James FIRTH, age 26, convicted Tipperary, arrived per Eliza in 1832, Ticket of Leave in Bathurst, and he was assigned to Robert SMITH.

From the Convict Indents  I read (others may read differently, this is just my transcription)
James FIRTH, aged 22, Read and Write, Protestant, Singles, from Co Antrim, a Tailor (5 yrs) Soldier , Steal Cloak,  Tried Tipperary, 16 March 1832,  7 years,  no previous convictions,  5 ft 7,  Ruddy and freckled complexion,  Brown hair , Chesnut eyes, no particular marks or scars…  So I wonder about this chap, a soldier and a tailor … Walter Sherry was a tailor in Mudgee when Agnes and Mary were there as girls…. 

So far, I am becoming doubtful as to how that photo could be one of a grandson of this particular James FIRTH. 

Cheers,  JM

[Wertyperty]

There were a lot of Irish Firth's along that transport road and heavy train Haulage line from mudgee to gulgong. I'm forming the impression that this family had a big part to do with development or businesses that used these transports. The museum also told us that a lot of aboriginals that didn't have a Christian last name were often given the last name of the person they worked for or married etc. there definately appears to be a relationship between aboriginals and Irish firths around these areas but what relationship I'm still unsure.

[majm]

I'm hoping Frances's death transcription has more info as I think this may hold the most valuable information.

Have you contacted St Johns church of England in Mudgee .... I can assure you that while they may need time to find a volunteer to chase up where their completed parish registers are currently located, that those registers usually have far more info that the NSW BDM certs.   Particularly for marriages and I am thinking of Anges marriage here.   I find info on marriage certs is often far more reliable than info on death certs.   Far far more reliable.   Firstly it is first hand info from Agnes.   Yes, she would be relying on info handed down to her, afterall her mum died with Agnes was only a 3 year old lass.  But she would have been asked to provide info about her parentage.   The clergyman would have recorded it on his original registers.  If she was a regular at that church, they it is likely her details will also be noted on the reverend's 'family sheets', so these can also be a valuable source of info. 

Re the chaps on Frances' dc as witnesses.... I would expect that would be the Church Sexton, often the second name on the document.   So I will chase that up for you now, back shortly, I will edit this with the info I find on him   

EDIT, From Grevilles 1875 Directory, William CAPLIN of Church St Mudgee was a sexton.  More info later in this thread. 

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

The museum also told us that a lot of aboriginals that didn't have a Christian last name were often given the last name of the person they worked for or married etc.

That is often cited, but rarely supported by documentation, and perhaps can be thought of as an urban myth.  I share another urban myth....    A lass I know through family history connections has among her family surnames, the following BLACKALL.   Someone in the 1990s was entering data into an excel spreadsheet, and entered that surname.  Along came someone else and copied it into their own, and during that exercise, excel "fell over".  Eventually someone else got hold of that spreadsheet, and mis-read BLACKALL as BLACK-ALL and then decided that meant the person was an Aboriginal, with both parents being Aboriginal and no 'foreigner' in the family forebears at all.     I remembered that particular example as soon as I saw this FIRTH tree on ancestry today, as I read Catherine BLACK

Perhaps the following is a sidetrack. perhaps not... but I will post it on the off-chance
Hi there,

There’s a photo apparently of Ernest FIRTH, son of Patrick and Catherine FIRTH that has been uploaded to a public tree at Ancestry.  He is in his WWI uniform.  I am confident that the person in that photo is of Aboriginal descent however the family tree owner  for Ernest does NOT show where the photo comes from, or how they can prove it is a photo of Pte Ernest James FIRTH, No 1696, 1st light horse regiment.  This could be important, because they show Ernest’s father’s father as born in Ireland.    .............

Ancestry’s submitted tree has Patrick James FIRTH as born 1842 at Molong NSW, son of James Patrick FIRTH born 1808 and Catherine BLACK (no further details for her).    .......

Cheers,  JM

[Wertyperty]

I'll be back on later tonight. I've just picked up my children and will need to attend to them for a few hours. I did find another firth family with all the same names as Ernest firth family. Only main differance was mother was Catherine Winifred not Kate Winifred Patrick Firth was right and marriage and kids dates were all different. No aboriginal referances only Irish and British. I wonder if that is where this other family tree could be wrong.

[majm]

There were a lot of Irish Firth's along that transport road and heavy train Haulage line from mudgee to gulgong. I'm forming the impression that this family had a big part to do with development or businesses that used these transports.

Somewheres I have info as to when that line was built.  But I think it would be 1870s or later.  It is not a long distance between Mudgee and Gulgong today, and likely it was less than a day's ride on horseback in the 1860s.   The goldfields at Gulgong were 1870s, so not much of a reason before then for heavy equipment to be hauled up to Gulgong.

Back to look for the Sexton 

Kate Winifred and Catherine Winifred are of course ONE and the same person.  Kate is still a nickname for Catherine.  (Kate Middleton, Duchess of Cambridge !)

Cheers,  JM

[Wertyperty]

We've come across a similar problem, mum wrote to my heritage for help and the person there had hands on modifying their information, cut a long story short he mixed the little info we had on Mary Ann with a lady from the USA. I researched the history attached to the other lady and proved this other lady was born 1838 and lived her full life in America. I will be back later, talk then.
By for now