Hi Willsy & Dizziefish,
Wow! Woweee!! Blimey I cannot believe my own eyes!
Your finding Robert`s baptism record--fantastic--at last we have his right birth date! Unbelievable-the searches that were undertaken to try, unsuccessfully, to find that were lengthy indeed, well done, great stuff.
What with the 3 birth dates given in his formal documents, 1901C & WW1 & Dr B`s report;
in addition to being unclear about his Mother`s true origins; the further mysteries surrounding the many aliases that she did use in her lifetime; moving around & my not being able to pin her down in the earlier censuses; the many men in her life; deception; her going to prison; children in and out of care; my stalling with John & Ellen Merchant and not getting any further with Matthew Welsh I never quite knew where to start looking for his birth record.
I just kept hitting a brickwall with finding his birth record but was quite sure that he was the Son of Robert, born in the year or the following one from when they married and you have now been able to solve another mystery, great stuff.
The WW1 birth date, making himself 5 years younger, I think was purposefully done so that he could qualify to sign up for Military service.
I was unable to justify where the names Murphy & McCarthy fitted into this family at all but felt sure that there was an Irish connection somewhere and you lovely, diligent volunteers have found it with Martin Murphy-thank you. `My looking-glass had become to narrow.`
The surname McCarthy linked to Daughter Ellen, born 1879, I have yet to decipher, I think I have found her in an 1891 census in london, but this thread has really brought down the brickwalls surrounding this family and, remarkably, given the surname Murphy its rightful home along with the beginnings of the Irish links with more to come I am sure.
Robert`s baptism, of course, Roman Catholic & with the name Elizabeth MURPHY! And, she did give the correct birth date to Dr Barnado`s staff when she placed the boys in care, well I never.
She said that John Welsh was born 1886 Holloway, Dr B, which I had assumed was in London, I am aware that there is another in Derby and although I have found the 2 Jan 1886 baptism in Islington I am now split 50/50 as to whether or not this is the right one. On the surface it would seem that Betsy was still in a relationship with Robert Welsh snr, which I did not know at the time of finding that record.
Her parents we now know were living in London in 1886 so it may make sense that she has gone to visit them and had Son John there perhaps, or maybe part of Robert seniors Military training which he was involved with at the time, based in Leicester, has taken him there--but St Barnabus was not a RC church if she were to follow through with the religious denomination as with Robert, I need to assess John`s baptism again. Louisa was she baptized?
Sponsors;
John & Jane Welsh--maybe siblings or Jane--Robert seniors Mother?
Robert`s Father on the marriage cert; was a Matthew Welsh, a Labourer and the 1881 census reveals that Robert was born Leeds, Yorkshire about 1862. (If he gave the right birth place)
Father Matthew--a few times I came across censuses for a Matthew & Jane Welsh in the Yorkshire districts, ooh this is exciting I will chase up details later today.
Thank you very much, I am-so-happy-so-happy-yippetty-day!
