Marriage look up Merchant to Brewin.

[Sal1525]

Hello,

Dizziefish, thank you for the baptism record-I had come across that one before and 2 birth GROs for 1866, Leeds, Yorkshire but dare not order a cert; until I had much more to go on what with the web of lies that surrounds Robert & Betsy it was hard to pin him down at all. And now the Military record yields a new birthplace Belper, Derby, I shall not be surprised if another birthplace does not crop up. However, I do believe that he was born about 1860.
Military record and the 1881 census born 1862. Marriage record born 1861.

And you are right they did marry 20 Feb 1882 St Michael`s, Derby.
Robert 21y, Bricklayer. Father Matthew Welsh a Labourer.
Elizabeth 20y. Father John Merchant an Upholsterer.
Witnessed; Ann Curan & G. Adie

Robert`s abodes;
28 Jan 1881--19 Walkers Lane, Derby. Military Attestation.
03 Apr 1881--    Walkers Lane, Derby. Census
20 Feb 1882--    Walkers Lane, Derby. Marriage cert;
30 Jun 1882--03 Orchard Street, Leicester.  Military reenlistment.
21 Oct 1884--     Leicester. Dtr Louise born. (thank you for the details)
02 Jan 1886--     Islington, London. Son John`s CHR/.
21 Nov 1906--    Maidstone, Kent according to the Dr Barnado report.
       
Occupations; Labourer at Smith`s Foundry; Bricklayer; General Labourer; Soldier-Rank-Private;  Hawker (recorded in dtr Ellen`s first 2 marriages)

Physical description 1881/82; Blue eyes; Brown hair; No distinctive marks; Height 5ft 3/4"; Fresh complexion.
Religion; Roman Catholic.
Father Matthew Welsh-- Mother unknown.

Military-served in the; 1st Derby Militia & Military Reserve, Buffs Leicester Militia.
Training 1886-1889.
Reengaged 1 Jul 1890. Absent 1891-----because---?
Sons Robert & John Welsh were placed into Dr Barnado`s Care Homes 7 Feb 1890 and emigrated to Canada 17 Mar 1892?
Did Robert wilfully cooperate with Betsy and put the boys in care; did he have no say or was completely unaware of the children's plight or abandon her altogether-does make me wonder? Would the authorities, in regards to the boys, tracked Robert down through his Military service and he has done a bunk?

Children;
Ellen Welsh born 7 Feb 1879 Hammersmith. Source death cert; Dr B report-Ellen was alias McCarthy born 1879. Was she Susannah in the 1881 census and was she Robert`s Dtr at all? The Military records do not list him having any children.

Louise Welch born 21 Oct 1884. CHR/ 12 Oct 1884 Leicester.
I wonder if she was Obinia/Althenia, not her real name, who later claims that she was born 1888 Millwall/Notting Hill, Obinia changed her identity and may have been born a Welsh or Smith?

Robert; born;
8 Dec 1882 Sheffield Dr B`s Letter. 28 Jan 1887 Chatham, Kent. WW1 details.
27 Jan 1883 of Scottish nationality. 1901 Canadian census.
My guess is 1883-passenger list age 9.

John; CHR/2 Jan 1886 St Barnabus Church, Hornsey Road, Islington, London (ancestry) & Dr B report said 1886. Passenger list age 6 in 1892 when he emigrated to Canada.

James Welch alias Smith; Born about 1889. No other details known.

Betsy`s other children were Brown and Arnold`s they were all born after her time with Robert.
Their Daughter Ellen married in 1923 and stated that her Father Robert Welsh was a general Hawker & deceased.
Robert junior stated that he was born in Chatham in his WW1 record and that may have been because his Mother lived there at that time.

Newspaper articles Derby Mercury for the 2 Mar 1881 & 2 Feb 1881 certainly tie in with the Military record found for him. The false attestation claim means that he did serve in the Nottingham Regiment at some point. Have I got this right Robert served in the Nottingham, Derby & Leicester Militias? Definitely him being drunk having enlisted 28 Jan 1881.

You have certainly helped put more meat-on-the-bones of Robert, once again thank you.

[willsy]

Did anything come of the death certificate for Robert as I found a moulder ( thinking of the military records) 1891 but younger and single in Islington

RG12; Piece: 274; Folio: 129; Page: 10

[Sal1525]

Hi Willsy,

I did not order the death cert; for Robert at the time when Mike & Bunnygirl were helping me on the posts for Robert`s details as I could not be sure that it was the right one.
The 2 pieces of information that I had for Robert, which were facts, was the 1881 census & Marr/cert; not enough to go on.

Back then, very green, I was just starting to learn about Betsy Merchant, information was coming from all directions and I was very much how Rab is today when trying to take it all in, and it became clear very quickly with the help of 2 other researchers who knew more than I did just how tangled, and deceitful at times, this Lady, Betsy, was.

In regards to Betsy I could not trust her words on family matters as being facts at all. She first said in 1890 to Dr Barnado`s that Robert died in Leicester infirmary----Mike proved that was not the case.
By 1906 the Dr Barnado report said that Robert "at the time of admission with Robert jnr & John, Father Robert, stated to be dead, but is now believed to be residing at Maidstone."

It kept nagging me that his Daughter Ellen stated that he was alive in 1897 & 1904 when marrying but deceased in 1923 when she married for the last time. How would she know unless she had continued contact with Robert or in touch with someone else that knew of his whereabouts. And yes she could have said he was alive as wishful thinking from a young lady but I don`t `think` so.

Robert, can we trust his words--we already have him lying to the Military Services in 1881 about having served before and he has given 2 birth places within 2 years to date---but he is young and may have learnt his lesson about deception or continued in the same vain throughout his life.

[Sal1525]

Hi,

No new results to report, been following up your links for Florence Columbius, partner & children and can now see the difficulty that you had with them, ha ha.
Blimey---there were a lot of Florence`s in the marriage & death records in Leic; Midlands; Yorkshire, a popular name-got no farther there.
To save anyone else searching, using her forenames only, I searched the entire Eng & Wales Wills & Probate records, 1858-1966 in the hope that she had made a Will-----if she did it was without her middle name included--covering the areas; Lincs; Leic; Derbyshire; Notts; Staffordshire; Wolverhampton; Coventry; Grimsby; Stoke/Trent; Peterborough; Warwickshire; Cambridgeshire.

I thought I might find her with her Daughter Ellen, haven`t done so yet. Goodness me Ellen & Alfred Purches travelled around the country a lot going by their kids births. I think Alfred must have been a Hawker or military man of some kind---any help with looking up a military record shall be warmly welcomed and received please--I could not get anywhere at FMPast-what the hell have they done with their search facility.
Surprised how few records are available at ancestry for the surname Kilbride, so he was a scene painter & artist and looks like he may have been alive in 1914 when his Dtr E. Ellen marries.
I will check the artist lists this evening and I know that there was a directory for theatrical scene painters, just not sure if that is available on-line to view.
I`ll see if I can help to track down Ellen Brewin/Barnes and what became of Martin. Interesting that she went back to the name of Barnes having divorced one would assume her name would be Brewin. Anyway, back later.

[Dizzifish]

Hi Sal,

I have still been looking when I get the chance.

I have sent you a message re Alfred Purches.

[Sal1525]

Hi Dizziefish,

Thank you very much indeed. I have now viewed the newspaper articles and Military records for Alfred but shall not post details here for privacy reasons.

I have searched high and low for the death of Ellen Barnes-Lordy-Lordy- there are too many results  to be able to pin her down at this moment in time so that search shall be out on hold for the time being whilst I try to find more records for Martin Murphy.

[Sal1525]

Hi Willsy.....

I have just seen your latest post, the original record is on F m p .... St Werbergh, Chester is Roman Catholic, it also says his birth date of 17th April 1891. Census night was 5th April 1891.

Florence is a visitor in Bowling, Bradford with Benjamin & Elizabeth Hunt... I think I looked at them previously but couldn't see a connection.

Maybe this is Alfred' birth registration.

Births Jun 1891   
Kilbride  Alfred -  Bradford, Y.  9b 45

Hi,

After conducting an extensive search for Joseph & Florence in the 1891 census I have to agree with you Dizziefish that it was the right Florence visiting the Hunt family in Bowling Old Lane, Bowling, Yorkshire. Florence minus Joseph, age 18, born Huddersfield.
The Hunts may or may not have family ties somewhere in searches down the line, considering Florence`s family were affiliated with Yorkshire just have to wait and see on that one. And, of course, not forgetting that she was born in Yorkshire.
Joseph-I went back and tried to find him but the few Joseph`s that I did find all went on to marry other ladies. And he was not listed in any of the artists listings, theatrical scene-painters--there are directories for them in book form but I will tend to that some rainy day.
For now I shall set them both to one side and keep looking for details about her Mother Ellen and make a start to search for her half-sister Louise.

[Sal1525]

Hi,

Finally, I had time to read through my mail from yesterday and have received both certificates--you were all correct with your findings, well done, great work and thank you.

Birth-John Merchant 1860;

Born- 18 Mar 1860. Abode Riding, Northampton.
Father John Merchant a Cabinet Maker. Mother Ellen Merchant formerly BREWIN.
Reg-district Northampton Union. Sub-reg-Saint Giles. Northampton.

Death-John Marchant 1865;

Died-6 Dec 1865. Lunatic Asylum, St Mary, Leicester.
John Marchant. 39 years. Scissor Grinder. Cause; General paralysis of the insane. Certified.
Informant; Joseph Johnston, in attendance at the Asylum.
Registered; 7 Dec 1865. Leicester. Sub-reg-district West Leicester.

John Merchant junior;

CHR/ 30 May 1860 St Margaret`s, Leicester. Abode Royal East Street. Father a Cutler.
CHR/ 5 Mar 1865 in Leicester. Any idea where please, address?

Your finding the 1861 census for John & Ellen & John jnr was spot on.
Address; 64 George Street, Altrincham, Cheshire. Father an Optician? (still puzzling me)

1871 Census--enumerated as John Murphy, age 12. living with his Mother Ellen & step-father Martin Murphy & sisters at New Street, Wellington, Shropshire. The right census for them all, great stuff.

The 1906 Dr Barnado report stated that maternal Uncle John Merchant-Barnes was aged 45, a seaman not heard of for 30 years.
His surname was one which Betsy created in order to marry Edwin Arnold bigamously, which she had to maintain in order to not be found out and prosecuted so she applied the same surname to John & sister Louisa in this report. Also, Betsy would not have wanted the authorities to track down her own kin of that I am sure. Omitted from the report was any mention of half-sister Florence and Father John Merchant.
John might have been a seaman given that his step-father Martin Murphy was a seaman/mariner during his lifetime.

John Marchant/Merchant senior.

All of you wonderful volunteers have helped me finally find out what happened to Ellen Brewin`s partner who was absent for so long with my own research, only part of his story told here but I am now better informed, thank you. The John you have found is the right one.

Born about 1826 London. 1861 census-Optician, Cheshire.

Died 6 Dec 1865 Leicester Asylum, age 39, the same man that you discovered who was buried 10 Dec 1865 Welford Road, CA-729, Leicester, age 39, once again well done.
This record and the death cert; states that he was in the Leicester Asylum which all ties in with the newspaper articles found for him and the Criminal record.

When christening his 2 children his occupation was listed as Cutler which matches the detail given in his death certificate.

18 Aug 1864--committed theft at Claybrooke Magna, Leicester. Victim Samuel Masson.
14 Sep 1864--transferred from Leicester Gaol to the Asylum.
17 Oct 1864--date of Trial, already in the Asylum.
21 Oct 1864--reported in the Nottinghamshire Guardian, Friday about the proceedings held at the Leicester Crown Court for John Marchant, a cabinet maker, theft of cutlery etc.. from Samuel. John was proved to be insane and his recognizances discharged. Cabinet maker as listed on his Son`s birth cert;
22 Oct 1864--reported in the Chronicle & Mercury United, Saturday, prison inspection; John Marchant was removed from Gaol to the Asylum "for reason of insanity, insane on admission". 14/9/64

Definitely the right man who was the partner of Ellen and Father to John & Betsy and I daresay Louise. I don`t think that the court case against Thomas helped his situation much and I wonder if he was made aware that Ellen rechristened the kids Barnes and what affect that would have had on John.
I`ll order Louise Dixon Barnes birth cert; next to see where her Mother was living at that time. When Ellen`s Brother Benjamin was giving evidence in the case against Thomas Barnes he said that Ellen may have been in residence in the Union, but I shall not be expecting to see a Father recorded.
Another piece of the puzzle solved, thank you.

[willsy]

Just reading through after being away for a few days. I still get excited when a piece of info lands that pulls it together, wish I could find Ellen but as SAL1525 found, I struggled with Kilbride and there are an awful lot of Ellen Barnes.